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Toxic Masculinity panel featuring Camille Paglia

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Vince_Ulam, Dec 12, 2017.

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Are men & boys sufficiently valued in 21st Century Britain?

  1. No

  2. Yes

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    The panel filmed below took place in October 2016 at some Battle of Ideas thing or other. What I find most interesting is the clear divide in positions between the younger members of the audience and the older panel members.



    Of particular note is the historic & cultural ignorance demonstrated by one young person to the traditional role of men as protectors & carers and their implicit belief that they can & should change what it means to be a man.
     
  2. Calpurnia99

    Calpurnia99 Star commenter

    Is "what it means to be a man" set in stone?
     
    Moony, chelsea2, Orkrider2 and 3 others like this.
  3. calamansi

    calamansi Lead commenter

    The word toxic is much overused, imo.
     
  4. calamansi

    calamansi Lead commenter

    When pardner first wrapped me in his arms and promised to keep me safe and happy, I loved it. I still do.
     
    artboyusa and Vince_Ulam like this.
  5. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Yes, else the question would not arise.
     
  6. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    Why be bothered how others want to define you? Self identify and be damned.
     
    Moony and bombaysapphire like this.
  7. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    Really? How do you define 'being a man'?
     
    Moony likes this.
  8. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    How the government identifies men affects how boys are educated and consequently the degrees of freedom afforded to their later self-identification as men.
     
    JosieWhitehead likes this.
  9. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    Is there a government defined template for manhood then?
     
    Moony likes this.
  10. elledriver

    elledriver Lead commenter

    That is pretty much the point Paglia makes. Being damned is not a good place to aim for.
     
    Vince_Ulam likes this.
  11. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    It's difficult to say but a search for "masculinity" on the Gov.uk website doesn't have anything positive to say about it. On the other hand, there are plenty of returns about domestic violence, sex work, disease and war in foreign countries.

    YouGov research shows that only 2% of young men aged 18-24 years feel "Completely masculine" compared with 21% of men aged 25-49, 32% of men aged 50-64 and 56% of men aged 65 and over.

    [​IMG]

    There must be some influence affecting men & women, some tacit ideology creeping through the generations, and it would be surprising if educational policies were not a factor.
     
  12. Calpurnia99

    Calpurnia99 Star commenter

    Taking what I suspect I you mean by "masculinity", surely there are positives and negatives, especially if taken to extremes? Ditto "femininity".
     
    Moony likes this.
  13. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Yes, however in identifying masculinity as an extreme then the media, policy-makers, pundits & the chattering classes make the greater part of masculinity, without which we wouldn't enjoy our current level of civilisation, untouchable by association and inaccessible to boys.

    The dangerous social aspects of femininity, meanwhile, are uncritically accepted as progressive, as necessary course-correction.

     
  14. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    One hour eight minutes?

    This will take me some time...
     
    Vince_Ulam likes this.
  15. elledriver

    elledriver Lead commenter

    Wow, Jordan Petersen.
    Just showing a video of him caused a major furore at Wilfrid Laurier University. He carries a trigger warning.
    (The whole Lindsay Shepherd thing is extraordinary.)
     
    Vince_Ulam likes this.
  16. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    Unless the poll defined what masculinity actual meant, it would seem to be a meaningless poll.
     
  17. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    No. Even then some obsessive contrarian would complain that the terms of the definition were not themselves defined, and so on. The poll is valid.
     
  18. elledriver

    elledriver Lead commenter

    It's doesn't need a definition to be a valid poll. Everybody has an understanding of what masculinity is and isn't
     
  19. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    What’s your definition? Are you sure it coincides with ‘everybody’ else’s.
     
  20. elledriver

    elledriver Lead commenter

    It doesn't need to be the same, obviously
     

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