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Toilet training

Discussion in 'Early Years' started by littleLilly, Mar 20, 2012.

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    Does anyone know if it is compulsory
    for nurseries attached to schools to take children who are not yet toilet trained? We are looking at reviewing our policies for
    next year.





    Thanks in advance






     
  2. butties

    butties New commenter

    The EYFS of course! EYFS key themes and commitments. A Unique Child, 1.2 Inclusive practise and 1.4 Health and well-being. Positive Relationships, 2.2 Parents as partners, 2.4 Key person. Enabling Environments, 3.2 Supporting every child. This information is taken from the Pre-school Learning Alliance Policy documents.
     
  3. This one is a hot topic of debate in our school as our current Reception year have appalling toileting habits, even after nearly 2 terms.
    I am not talking about children with medical issues, but children who have simply not been properly toilet trained by their parents. And I am not talking about occasional accidents, but children who wet on a daily basis and/or soil at least once or twice a week.
    The amount of teaching time taken up because staff are cleaning up wet and soiled children is excessive and is proving to be very disruptive.
    Now a parent is asking that her child be accompanied on every visit to the toilet so that a bowel movement diary can be kept. (Some lovely health care professional obviously feels this is all part of the teaching day and has encouraged Mum to believe that this is a fair expectation because the child is constipated!)
    None of my staff, myself included, mind dealing with occasional accidents and mishaps - it's an expected part of the job. However, I am sure no-one comes into a general TA role and expects to be providing such a 'service' several times a day, often to the same child.
    This is definitely a recent trend and, from discussions with colleagues, the situation is actually not that unusual. One of our school nurses deals almost solely with toileting issues and said that many parents simply do not know how to toilet train their children. She also blames the use of pull-ups and 'hi-tech' disposable nappies for the delay in some chidren becoming reliably clean and dry.
    A thorny problem, and one that I can see becoming increasingly widespread.

     
  4. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    Ah, the toiletting issue [aka problem] again!
    It's awful, isn't it?
    The only thing I'll say is that infants' toilets are often quite revolting. We shouldn't have to train them to control teir bladders and bowels but perhaps we should do more when it comes to toilet etiquette.

     


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    Thank you for all your replies. Yes the toileting problems
    are also a difficult in our reception class and like you say an incredible amount
    of time is spent by all members of staff dealing with these incidents and
    therefore less time is spent teaching, we thought by only admitting those
    children who are already toilet trained in nursery would also help in reception
    too as staffing has been cut to the bare bones.

     
  6. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    You can't refuse a child who is not toilet trained under the DDA The DCSF issued Guidance, Implementing the Disability
    Discrimination Act in Schools and Early Years Settings (DfES 0160-2006 DOCEN),
    which outlines the steps that schools and settings can take to ensure that
    they do not contravene the Act.
    "It is unacceptable to refuse admission to any child who is delayed in
    reaching continence, whether or not they fall into the definition provided by
    the act."


     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    Unacceptable to whom? The daft *** who are without a by- your- leave altering the provisions of the DDA?It is unacceptable to teachers to have to deal with children whose sphincter muscles work perfectly well but who can't be bothered to go to the loo in time.
     
  8. zibidee

    zibidee New commenter

    I see it as differentiation. If that is where their physical development is at then toileting is part of their education. However if it is parental ignorance then we work with the parents very intensely in nursery to get them trained. It usually takes no more than 3 weeks when the school and parents do it together.
    You can't refuse a child a place because they're in nappies, however when I do home visits I make it very clear that the parent is expected to try and get them dry and if it doesn't happen in time to start nursery then we will do it together, but parents are expected to work in partnership with us. I'm all for following parents lead, but if they've proven their technique is ineffective then I feel it is our responsibility to take over. Its worth checking for any medical condition, and they often mention constipation, which is usually down to a poor diet and I make sure they know that. I also make it clear we don't have suitable changing facilities or the staffing for changing baby nappies so it is in their child's interest to be trained. Its not nice being changed by an adult they don't know, on the floor of a disabled toilet!
    I often ask the parent "what is the medical reason why your child is not dry?" When they say there isn't one, and I give a puzzled "so why haven't you trained them?" look that usually gets the message across. But some parents are just completely oblivious and with these its better to do it with them at school otherwise they send them in untrained but in pants, thats a lot worse for the child.
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    But not a part that I consider to be the responsibility of teachers
    I have done so on several occasions and would continue to do so. A school is not the place for children in nappies. I'd get the child's health visitor onto the case.
     
  10. zibidee

    zibidee New commenter

    And are management aware that you are doing this? Let alone Ofsted?
    For most who come in un toilet trained its just another of their issues resulting from a deprived and hopeless home life. Therefore I would prefer that they are in nursery with me, beginning to learn, being stimulated and enjoying life, than stuck at home with a parent who is clueless. At least if they come in and we do it together they will be out of nappies by reception.
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    We are talking some years ago as I am now retired but management was fully supportive and so was Ofsted, that, in fact, rated my teaching and the nursery as outstanding. What is the point of having trained teachers in an educational environment if they are required to be doing potty training all day? The staff pupil ratio in schools is not geared for this. The problem needs solving in a different way. I would do the same if I were still teaching today. And I reckon I would have the support of management.
     
  12. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    I was actually quoting from the legal document it isn't my personal opinion.
    I believe the vast majority of children would be out of nappies if their parents thought they would be unable to attend nursery before they were toilet trained. Of course a very small number of children will have genuine difficulties but not in the numbers we are now seeing.
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    Msz, I realised that. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I didn't.
    I agree and this is why I think that is should be made clear to the creators of the legal document that teachers won't stand for this.
     
  14. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    You'll note they carefully did not use the word 'unlawful' - that's because it is lawful to refuse a child without a disability if they are still in nappies.
    'Unacceptable' is not a word that has any teeth - an act determines what is lawful and what is not.
    When schools stand up and declare they will not accept children who are not toilet trained it's remarkable how quickly parents get around to training them.
     
  15. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    In what way?
    I prefer pants because at least then the child becomes aware they are wet/soiled and personally I think it's easier to change pants discretely than nappies
     
  16. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    The difficulty is proving that they don't have a disability (developmental delay)
    "Any admissions policy that sets a blanket standard of continence, or any other aspect of development, for all children is discriminatory <u>and therefore unlawful under the Act.</u> All such issues should be dealt with on an individual basis, and settings are expected to make reasonable adjustments to meet the needs of each child".
     
  17. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    Bizarre to see such an issue bundled with disability. I'd be inclined, if I were the head of a primary/early years setting, to 'deal with' each issue 'on the individual basis' that staffing does not permit nappy changing and therefore the child in question will have to be toilet trained.

     
  18. 15 years ago the playgroups in my area would not take children until they were out of nappies - and by 2 years 9mths when they could begin attending all the local children were out of nappies, as the parents had an incentive.
     
  19. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    I just had another look at the '24 tasks beneath a teacher' to remind myself of what's on it (putting up classroom displays, for example) and wondered how the unions could sit back and allow their members to be told to change nappies.
    Then I re-read an article in the Telegraph a few years ago in which one woman described how her seven year old daughter still had to wear nappy pants at night. Where will it all end? My younger brother was a bed-wetter into his fourth year (though dry completely during the day, as he had been since he was 18 months) when my mum finally consulted the health visitor in desperation. An alarm to go under his bottom sheet cured him in a week.
     
  20. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

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