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Today's maths

Discussion in 'Primary' started by Moisy, May 11, 2017.

  1. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    Inspectors found that too many secondary schools did not work effectively with partner primary schools to understand pupils’ prior learning and ensure that they built on this during Key Stage 3. Worryingly, some secondary leaders simply accepted that pupils would repeat what they had already done in primary school during the early part of Key Stage 3, particularly in Year 7.

    Ofsted, 'Key Stage Three: The Wasted Years'
    tedhat, Norsemaid and cassandramark2 like this.
  2. lrw22

    lrw22 Senior commenter

    On next year's SATs instructions, I think they need to add tissues and hugs to the equipment list as I spent a good part of the test today distributing both of those things.
    emeraldrach and Sally006 like this.
  3. Sally006

    Sally006 Lead commenter

  4. edinteach85

    edinteach85 New commenter

    Am I being thick here but how would parents know what questions were in the papers?
    tedhat likes this.
  5. whitestag

    whitestag Senior commenter

    Kids will have told them.
  6. Jesmond12

    Jesmond12 Star commenter

    After 16 years spent administering SATs as a Y6 teacher and as a HT I did my last one yesterday.

    I will miss a few things when I retire but the stress of the SATS each May will not be one of them.
  7. pamela68

    pamela68 New commenter

    'Crying students' wasn't commonplace with SATS several years ago. There's no good reason it should seemingly be more so now.

    Not true -I have been teaching year 6 pupils since the SATs began and I still remember a very bright student breaking down in what was the old writing test. Teachers do not put pressure on the pupils - they put pressure on themselves because believe it or not they all want to do well and pass.
    teacup71 likes this.
  8. teacup71

    teacup71 Occasional commenter

    Totally agree.
  9. markuss

    markuss Occasional commenter

    But there wasn't a pass (or a fail). Couldn't you tell them that? Or that your assessment was the important half of the assessment? (I won't ask about telling them they weren't truly doing an SAT. You had to pretend because everyone else did.) Nowadays it isn't 50/50, is it? Isn't the TA the actual verdict? (I know you have to report NCT score as well, where there is one.)

    It must have happened because you say it, but how could they think they were "failing" a writing test? (Reading - yes, possibly, if they didn't think they understood the questions.) But if they knew they were good writers, how could they think they were writing badly?

    I'm interested in this only as an assessor. When I'm marking, I can't help wondering what's in the mind of the young writers although that's not my business really.
  10. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    They did do SATs though. . . .
    whitestag likes this.
  11. Sally006

    Sally006 Lead commenter

    Of course kids felt pressure with the old SATs but this is far worse. The main reason being the pass/fail nature of it but more importantly they are being expected to do stuff that is just not appropriate for kids that age. I often wonder what is left for our secondary colleagues to do. Every time I do an internet resources search I get GCSE tutorials. It's completely crazy!
  12. whitestag

    whitestag Senior commenter

    Don't understand half of that.

    But yes, the SATs results are what Ofsted use against the schools. And yes, they can 'fail', because they are deemed 'not achieving the expected standard'.

    The writing is teacher assessed but they can fail that as well if they don't tick the required boxes.
  13. edinteach85

    edinteach85 New commenter

    That was my only thought, I would just be surprised if a lot of kids could repeat what the questions were word for word, I think I forgot half of them as soon as it was all over!
  14. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    No,the TA is not the actual verdict,it's just a meaningless sop ( apart from in writing where it is so constrained by tick lists that there is no scope for a teacher's professional judgement at all). It is the test result that schools are measured against, that progress is measured against and that becomes the starting point of GCSE targets. All TA judgments are used for is to measure teacher's powers of prediction against ( "You said Fred would be working at expected but he only managed a scaled score of 99 so is working below. Yes, I know he had a meltdown in the maths paper 3 but that's not the point, your TA was wrong") It is the test result that is the be all and end all.
    Pomz and cassandramark2 like this.
  15. Sally006

    Sally006 Lead commenter

    CarrieV I fear you are right but I have tried hard to tell my borderline pupils that my TA is important and that I value all their effort in class. Sadly, it's just a bonkers and cruel world and I hate it. What the hell are we doing to kids self esteem? I have observed a significant number of children "not making the grade" are summer born. If it was "boys" or "race" then there would be a huge outcry about the system letting down those groups but somehow no one gives a toss about accident of birth! Oh, there will always be that brilliant August child and a September child who really struggles but we professionals all know that at primary, age and maturity has a huge impact. God forbid we go back to grammar schools. If I didn't have a mortgage I'd be gone as I no longer have the stomach for all this.
  16. philgreenworld

    philgreenworld New commenter

    All our assessments went well - no complaints here.
  17. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    Good for you!
  18. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    How would you know?
    cassandramark2 likes this.
  19. Ezioclone

    Ezioclone New commenter

    What sort of innumerate idiot are you hypothetically quoting here? There is no **significant** evidence from this that the teacher assessment was wrong **at all**.

    Whilst a scaled score of 99 is technically below expected level, within the normal error bounds of assessment it is quite reasonable to regard this as entirely in line with the teacher's prediction of 'at expected level'. No teacher can hope to consistently, precisely predict student performance to within 1 scaled score mark. Certainly not in the first two years of SATS, when the assessment boundaries are still being understood by all.

    Things are a little different if *many* students do a little worse than expected. In that case, perhaps the teacher has mis-judged their ability a little, or perhaps (for some reason) they did under-perform en-mass in the SATS.
    I think it would be a very unfair (or probably just over-stressed and irrational) member of SLT who excessively criticised a Year 6 teacher for such results. Yes, it might badly effect the school's headline performance figure, but it's not in itself a significant indicator of any under-performance.

    These really aren't 'advanced' ideas that take a professional statistician to understand.
    In a half-sensible education system, all members of SLT's would understand it - though I doubt they currently do.
    [I happen to teach A-Level Stats up to module 3, so am not completely ignorant about how to correctly interpret numerical data].

  20. qforshort

    qforshort New commenter

    This is exactly what I wondered. Wish I could feel that confident but not having a clue how they've done am feeling the terror...
    chickenlady4 likes this.

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