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Today's maths

Discussion in 'Primary' started by Moisy, May 11, 2017.

  1. Moisy

    Moisy New commenter

    For the first time in the 100 years I have been teaching Year 6 I had a little girl cry at the end of this paper. I am not a happy bunny!! :mad:
     
    teacup71 likes this.
  2. emeraldrach

    emeraldrach New commenter

    I had 3 crying, and at the end when I had collected them in they didn't cheer like the other times, they sat in silence... speaks volumes. I cried after too, totally heart wrenching!
     
    teacup71, Chloe2403 and Moisy like this.
  3. Rtilley11

    Rtilley11 New commenter

    Happy faces all week...until today...still, only two were in tears.
     
    tedhat and teacup71 like this.
  4. s_teach

    s_teach New commenter

    It was a difficult paper. One mark questions requiring lots of working out.
    Many of mine didn't finish on time.
     
  5. TheGazMan

    TheGazMan New commenter

    That was tough today - lots of questions that were at the higher end of the expectation range. Guess over the course of the 3 papers it evens itself out as yesterday's were much more doable. Anyone reaching a scaled score of 110 + this year really will be in the top bracket of attainment.
     
    Chloe2403 likes this.
  6. teacup71

    teacup71 Occasional commenter

    My able were happy;my intervention group were not. The others were just glad it was done. We really target Arithmetic so I hope that will bring up scores overall.
    I hope the children get results matched to their ability...no nasty shocks.
     
  7. cozg

    cozg New commenter

    My children found it much harder than paper two and needed all the time to get to the end. Some questions too difficult for middle ability to tackle but higher ability seemed to be ok. I'm glad the harder one was last as my class ( no SEN) had kept positive after the others and felt like they were do-able but this last paper saw a few slumped shoulders.
     
  8. 3toeddave

    3toeddave New commenter

    Today's paper was tough but fair (from a trick question paper 2 logic). I presume if nationally the results are lower the pass mark will also drop from last year's 60 mark? i fear for my middles that have worked really hard and were averaging 70, based on last years paper, that found yesterday too confusing and today too hard. Oh well bring on the long wait for moderation news!! well done all and good luck.
     
    tedhat likes this.
  9. hoppy1989

    hoppy1989 New commenter

    I felt the paper today was much better than yesterday. There was little ambiguity in the questions. Yes, there were two very tricky questions towards the end, but the beginning of the paper was pretty simple. I think the threshold will lower slightly, but not much. The arithmetic was a step up from last year, Paper 1 was tricky...Overall, I felt the maths assessments were fair....
     
  10. D1p5t1ck

    D1p5t1ck New commenter

    A tough one today-particularly for lower ability and mid to lower ability. Certainly tougher than last years final paper.
    Lovely to see the Y6 cohort this afternoon involved in a practical science lesson -smiling and enjoying it!!
     
  11. gill42

    gill42 New commenter

    I think the paper was slightly easier than yesterday in that there wasn't quite as much 'wordiness'. My highers managed to finish and most of them got towards the end. The children definitely seemed happier than yesterday's fiasco of a paper. Fingers crossed the threshold fall!!
     
  12. cassandramark2

    cassandramark2 Lead commenter

    As usual, the thresholds will depend upon whatever agenda the DfE have in mind. We are all pawns in a big game of political chess - just as we've been since the introduction of NCTs.
     
    Katie_laaa likes this.
  13. DavidHowes1977

    DavidHowes1977 New commenter

    Felt the positioning of some of the more awkward questions in terms of presentation and content was interesting. By placing certain questions, which I thought were certainly pushing the mastery envelope, in the middle to end section, it hit children's pace when they were close to hitting a stride. There were questions that followed that some didn't get to because they spent longer trying to fathom out the maths in the mid sections that I thought should have preceded them. Only paper I had this week where children didn't finish it...but, overall I thought this week more palatable than last year's.
     
  14. alexbrowne7

    alexbrowne7 New commenter

    Agree totally with the 'pawns in a game of political chess. Paper 3 was very difficult for lower ability children. Too early on there were questions which required a great degree of understanding and application of a variety of topics. Would like to think the threshold will go down-will depend on what the government want to report!
     
  15. richie72

    richie72 New commenter

    Mastery has to be tested and the full scope of curriculum expectation. The expectation is that children, who are middle attainers will not manage the latter questions as they haven't achieved mastery. We are too conditioned as a profession to be looking at 100%. If we know our teaching and pitch is right, then why regret? Why worry? Do what you know is right for your children, let them sit the test (without giving them a burden of responsibility) and there will be no tears. I have been a Head for 18 years and never had tears over Sats but we don't play the high stakes card. Do your best... Move on.... That paper reflected curriculum expectation unfortunately. For some, the readiness for deepening and mastery isn't there. It will be, for most, in time.
     
  16. D1p5t1ck

    D1p5t1ck New commenter

    Doesn't the fact that we all think the threshold will depend on what story the Gov want to put out really make a mockery of the assessment system in schools today. So so sad!
     
  17. RegulatorWatts

    RegulatorWatts New commenter

    Personally, I think paper 2 and 3 are an acknowledgement that they knew people were going to target the arithmetic as it's the easiest to score high on as there are only so many questions they can ask and by Spring it is just a matter of drilling methods. In my practice tests all my low mids upwards were scoring 30+ on the arithmetic because from day 1 I have been practicing for it. Score 30 and you only need another 30 out of 70 to pass on last year's threshold or 15 on each paper if you prefer.

    To me the confusing paper 2 and tough 3 are an attempt to address that and make sure that you are not just hot-housing them and teaching reasoning and problem solving as well.

    I would add to that a lot of the middle questions were really difficult and actually some at the end were far more accessible (to my children at least) and I am glad I have drilled into to them all year that if they don't understand a question to move on and make sure they at least look at every one before time is up as they might find one they can do. As I mentioned on another thread, the 3 mark question today will have saved a lot of my mids because we have done it to death and as soon as they saw it they all pounced on it having missed 3 or 4 questions out before it. The 2 mark question after a lot of them could do as well. Trouble is if they get caught in the middle a lot of them won't even get there.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thought it was much tougher today but probably a balance considering there was little for the really able yesterday. I agree there was one question (21 I think) which should have been placed at the end of the test. However, most of my kids said they skipped over one part and went back at the end if they had time. It's all over now for another year!
     
    hovispride likes this.
  19. sunshineneeded

    sunshineneeded Star commenter

    Also thought it was tougher today - but perhaps that's also because it's the end of a horrible week, the kids are tired and we're all exhausted. Mastery was certainly tested, and not just towards the end of the paper. Now we just have to wait and see .... and get back to normal (well, normal post-SATs year 6).
    Hope everyone is having a chill out of some sort tomorrow!
     
  20. Ezioclone

    Ezioclone New commenter

    Why are there so many reports (from parents and teachers) of this happening? If children are motivated to work well and just do there best, there should be very, very few tears.
    Overwhelmingly, it seems that there's some teachers and/or parents that transfer the pressures on them onto their students. That's why too many are crying.
    I'm Secondary, but have been working in a Primary for 8 months with a Year 6 teacher and she has judged how best to motivate all her students perfectly well. None were stressed (certainly not the lowers, who have been prepared and trained to do their absolute best, but no more). All of them have had an (almost) fun, exciting week 'showing off' how much they know. None of the students were mentally 'tired' at the end of '4 hard days of exams'.
    This teacher has never used words like 'pass'/'fail'. Each students is given target scores - depending upon their ability - and 'success' is measure in terms of those - not the *school's* figures of 100 etc.
    Good teachers can manage this perfectly well (though I concede that outside, uncontrollable pressures from parents could jeopardize the situation).

    The nearest we had to any child being 'upset' was a few that may have 'kicked themselves' for realising (in discussions with other students afterwards) that they'd made a silly mistake or two. No criticism from the teacher or support staff - just praise for them genuinely seeming to do their best.



    Very well said.
    Students should be told to expect some questions (in Maths papers 2 and 3) that might well be beyond them, because the papers are testing how well you can apply knowledge to (slightly) novel and unusual situations. Students who have mastered a topic will very often be able to apply their knowledge to a 'new' type of problem, but not always.

    It seems to me that the design of the Maths KS2 SATS is already (after just 2 years) working largely as intended.
    The level of English and Maths that students achieve at the end of KS2 isn't ultimately at all important for the child. It only matters because it's a key milestone / assessment point on their way to GCSEs and beyond.
    Maths teachers have been asking for years and years to improve basic arithmetic skills in Primary - and then leave them to teach most of Maths that builds upon that.
    The emphasis that many Primary teachers are now putting on Maths paper 1 is just what's needed. A high score in Paper 1 provides the solid foundation that's required to do well in Papers 2 and 3 and, much more importantly, for students to then go on and succeed in Secondary maths.

    Of course, the pressure will now (quite rightly) switch on to Secondary maths teachers in order to truly capitalise on the
    significantly-improved arithmetic abilities of Year 6/7 students. :) Bring it on.
    Under the old Maths SATS system, it was quite possible to get Level 4 even with poor arithmetic skills (by 'teaching to the test', and focussing on shape/space & graphs), and yet this hugely disadvantaged many students because they had huge gaps in their basic knowledge of numeracy that could/would never be repaired. [Think about it: If you had been told by your Primary teacher that you were a Level 4, and your SAT result confirmed it, how would you have felt about being told you needed to go back a learn Level 2 / 3 material? Unsurprisingly, many students *hated* to be given much 'easier' work, even if they couldn't do it. Very many, quite naturally, did whatever they could to hide or disguise the fact that they couldn't do some of the 'easier' arithmetic work.
    I'm quite optimistic that the new design of KS2 Maths SATS will be to the great long-term benefit of students, and provides far less scope for short-term manipulation.
     
    alexanderosman likes this.

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