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To clear this pay freeze business up

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by ljp84, Jun 22, 2010.

  1. M1 - U3 = 9 years. I imagine the majority of teachers in this country have actually been teaching for longer than that. Therefore, moral judgements aside and taking inflation into account, most teachers will experience an effective pay cut.
  2. Could you spare a thought for the poor support staff who do an equally important job but who earn a lot less and only had 0.5% pay rise last year. We will have no more till they lift the freeze. We still have mortgages, bills etc to pay but nobody seems to care about us.
    I believe that staff in essential roles across any essential sector should not have a pay freeze (like schools).
  3. I agree with regards to support staff- they are invaluable.

    I found an illuminating article on the BBC website which makes interesting reading:
    The average graduate starting wage is 29k which is way above what a teacher gets in their first year. The average starting wage across the public sector is 25 k which is still substantially above M1 (excl london weightings) for teachers.
    Therefore, it can hardly be said that teachers are coining it compared to other people who have been to uni for 3 or 4 years.
  4. AdmiralNelson

    AdmiralNelson New commenter

    No-one ever went into teaching for the money....
  5. Does the same count for leadership scale?
  6. EXACTLY!!! I echo what's been said there - teacher's pay rise has been way below inflation, which basically means you think you're getting a better deal when actually you're taking a pay cut! Basically each year we're getting a 'LITTLE' more but our outgoings are a 'LOT' more!!!

  7. marymoocow

    marymoocow Star commenter

    No one seems to know the answer to us PT workers. There was talk of a lump sum for anyone earning under 21K I think, so does that mean any teacher working PT and earning under this will also get it. Cant remember whether this was a lump sum or altering tax/ NI contributions as they did to alieviate affect of 10p tax thing, which I did get. Anyone know the answer?
  8. What about Acadamies? Will they be immune from this freeze? Are they able to award (or not) pay rises autonomously?
  9. Some information you may want to check out.
    The current deficits is caused by two factors, reduced revenue (caused by reduction in output and loss of some banking revenue) and deliberate overspending (the so-called structural deficit).
    The proportion between these two factors is roughly equal.
    The government 'bailing' out the banks is not a significant factor in the current deficit. The government gave money to the banks - the government manufactuers money after all -, liquidity, in exchange of banking debt, which may or may not be paid. If these debt turn out in due course to be bad then the deficit grows far worst. But currently the hit in the deficit is minor.
    The loss of banking revenue is pretty much unrecoverable business and this is around 6-7% of the drop. The overspending - which the govenment did as a matter of policy not realising what was coming - is around 6-7% and was occurring for about 5-7 years prior to the election - indeed overall in the space of 10 years the entire public sector spend increased by around 50%. During that 5-7 years education was one of the chief benefactors of the overspending - for example teachers got 'classroom' helpers in the form of TAs etc and got awarded assured 10% off-teaching time. Over the last 3 years public sector pay has increased by around 4-5% - that's right during the worst recession in 60+ years public sector pay went up! - whereas it has decline on average but around 4-5% in the private sector as well as approximately >1 million private sector employees now being unemployed and on benefits.
    The last government had a long term policy of keeping unemployment down by 'creating jobs' in the public sector, using 'windfall' revenue from the City and North Sea Oil.
    The current plan is that over the next 5 years the deficit will be brought into balance. During that 5 years the deficit will build up sufficient costs that just paying the interest on it will consume the entire education budget of this country, ie approximately 70-80 billion. In that 5 years non-front-line departments/activities will be reduced in size by around 25%. And this will only happen if private sector growth increases at moderate levels, ~2% per year, public sector pension costs can be brought under control, and the debts the government has secured from the banks don't all go tips-up.
    The situation is like your running a household that is overspending 12-14% annually and in 5 years time you will at last 'balance your budget' but will owe a years salary and that is the BEST you can do other than winning the lottery.
    One last thing, which I am sure some teachers will find hard to understand, teachers generate no short-term wealth whatsoever above the provision of childcare which is currently worth 50% of a NQT salary. If a teacher pays 50% more tax, this extra revenue is not sourced from wealth creation it's sourced from other wealth creators. Childcare is of worth only by the fact that it immediately frees up wealth-creators to earn wealth this country badly needs over the next decade. Childcare is essential for economic recovery, education is not. The state could save 85+ billion a year - half the deficit immediately - is it stopped all funding of education, most parents would then be left to pay for private education and most children would naturally learn to self-educate themselves, rest would be left to burn - some might say the overall effect would be much like current state education - teachers would then be forced to act competitvely with the better ones doing far better than current expectations and the poorer teachers burning in a void of unemployment - something which doesn't happen with current practices.
    Teachers do generate wealth long-term in the form of providng a competitive educated workforce who could generate more wealth in the future. However as suggested above you do have to wonder if the state is any good at managing this - for example over the last 15 years there has only been a minor improvements - possibly solely due to the increasing complex of society - in cognitive abilties as measured by TIMAS.
    So, if you think a 2 year pay freeze is all that is coming to education then really your on a different planet, This country can not generate sufficient growth of wealth in the short term to avoid very deep cuts in the public sector.
  10. The freeze will apply to pay scales so all p/t teachers, even those earning less than 21K will have their pay frozen for at least 2 years.

  11. marymoocow

    marymoocow Star commenter

    Yes I realise that, but there was talk of a bonus for want of a better word for all low income earners, ie less than £21K as there are many state sector workers on low wages. What isnt clear is weather it meant on full time wages of less than £21K or everyone including PT workers on less than £21K
  12. Informant

    Informant New commenter

    The freeze on cost of living increases constrains our pay scales, but doesn't prevent teachers receiving pay rises by progression up the (now constrained) payscale if they haven't reached the top.

  13. I was under the impression that the union only had this pay scale agreement until 2011 which is why we would go up the pay scale in Sept this year but then our pay would be frozen for two years - and this would not include cost of living increases either. Very confusing!
  14. Hardly a 'get out clause' for those of us who chose to leave better paid jobs than teaching!! If I hadn't taken VOLUNTARY redundancy and gone into teaching I would now be on almost double my current teaching salary! I can't believe teachers can be so blinkered and 'tar everyone with the same brush'! No wonder the kids are so badly behaved, badmannered and illiterate if they are being taught by teachers with attitudes like yours!!!!!
  15. Can someone enlighten me? Newly back to teaching after a long, long gap, what is this 'cost of living allowance'?

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