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To be or not to be?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by lexus300, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    That's an excellent one. I'll add it to my list. Rac will be delighted.
     
    Jamvic likes this.
  2. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    "What is truth?" Pilate asked Jesus.
    It's a good question, with many different answers.

    Science explores one kind of truth; religious faith explores another, for example.
    Accepting the truth of one does not deny the truth of another.
    Many scientists are also people of faith.

    The danger comes when we stop asking the question, and think we have all the answers.
     
    lexus300 and sadscientist like this.
  3. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    Unfortunately there are a LOT of people who don't understand the scientific method. Equally, there are a lot of people who think that science is a (dogmatic) body of knowledge.

    When trying to point this out to someone (which I haven't done for quite a while, cos by and large it's a total waste of time), I often use the example of gravity. If I drop something, it always falls down - it never falls "up". If however one day some things started falling "up", then the scientific approach would be to think: "aha, that's interesting - the current theory is incomplete in some way", and study what's going on.

    We have the "Theory of Gravity". It's worked so well that no-one bothers to test it any more. Perhaps it's not the complete story though. (And yes, I realize that it's incomplete in the most extreme of circumstances, but that's not what we experience on Earth.) If someone said they dropped something and it fell "up", would they be believed, at face value? Personally I'd say "Show me". (In fact even if something did appear to fall "up", my first thought would be to explain it via stage magic, but anyway.)

    Coincidentally the "Theory of Gravity" and the "Theory of Evolution" use the same terminology. That's a useful explanation of the scientific use of the word "theory".
     
    lexus300 likes this.
  4. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    You forgot about all those things that fall up but only when nobody is looking.
     
    EmanuelShadrack likes this.
  5. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    Science deals with things you can measure. Religion might deal with other things, but if religion starts talking about things you can measure (like e.g. how old the Earth is), then there are problems.
     
  6. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    So "God Is Big" is really just a sort of estimate?
     
  7. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    True. I put my cup of tea down this morning, popped out of the room for a moment, and now there's a great big tea stain on the ceiling. Pesky anti-gravity in effect when I'm not looking...
     
    sbkrobson likes this.
  8. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    I don't disagree with anything you say here.
    However, what we are talking about is epistemology. How we know what we know.

    Science addresses this whereas religion just states a position and that is where the difference arises. In most cases, in religious, the basis of the position is opaque and not open to question because that basis is God.
     
    EmanuelShadrack likes this.
  9. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    No it is a meaningless statement because we do not have a working definition of God that provides a prediction of size. Nor do we have any data that would test that prediction.

    Even the statement "God is infinite" is run away from when it proves inconvenient. Religious apologists are good at saying what God is not but less good at defining what God is.
     
  10. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    Good summary.
    Religion is on my say so.
    And you will agree.
    And then there were sheep.
     
    EmanuelShadrack likes this.
  11. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    I'm afraid you may be rumpling your brow in ernst to forge that response, whereas I was dancing my eyebrows in humour when I posted.
    Perhaps that is an additional difference between religion and science.
     
    irs1054 likes this.
  12. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    Curiously "sheep" is le mot juste, since we have "The Lord is my Shepherd", and all that.
     
  13. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    Perhaps you missed this?
    (And I DO have a sense of humour! :p)
     
  14. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    I thought that too. I was tempted to reply "No no no my dear Mx sbkrobson, that should be 'God is well big'", but decided against it, on the grounds of it not being particularly humorous.
     
  15. Geoff Thomas

    Geoff Thomas Star commenter

    So you thingkthat God is a big well, full of the water of life?
     
  16. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    I was not unaware of the humour behind your comment but behind much humour lies a serious point.;)
     
  17. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    Not necessarily. Don't take these things literally. Any large-capacity water container would suffice...
     
  18. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Really?
     
  19. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    with no negativity, there is no improvement
     
    lexus300 likes this.
  20. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    What is 'up' if no-one is looking?
     
    lexus300 likes this.

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