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To be or not to be?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by lexus300, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    We have a Quaker meeting house in the next town I will look in after reading up a little.
    Thank you.
     
  2. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    I agree with you, but how did that match with your belief in the christianity for so may years? Eternal damnation for being apostate, or even converting to another religion is a pretty basic part of catholic teaching isnt it?
     
  3. stopwatch

    stopwatch Lead commenter

    I'm not sure what the party line is these days. I guess that, if you converted to Islam, it might be the case, but not if you convert to C of E etc.

    The priest at my wife's Catholic Church knows I am not Catholic and that I attend with her. I think that there are other similar cases. He is always welcoming and, in fact, has arranged some discussion meetings for us non-RC people to help us understand the faith better. I realise that you could say that this is the first step to 'capturing' us, but in this case, I don't think so
     
  4. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    It does seem non confrontational and encourages you to find your own path but still within Christian forgiveness and love. But must admit I don't know that much.
    My mum used to be a regular church goer but became disillusioned but for many years started going to non denominational prayer meetings led by lay preachers. there may be a group near you. She made many friends and widened her interests as they ran things like walking groups and gardening clubs.
     
    lexus300 likes this.
  5. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    As a kid at school I obeyed and kept my reservations to myself otherwise I would have been treated quite severely. Once away from school and the RC inculcation, I drifted away only to return and drift away and return...... Had enough now and will not return because RC is a closed organization with far too many skeletons in the cupboard.
     
  6. kibosh

    kibosh Star commenter

    I suppose i meant all the answers to ones own spiritual or religious quest, the search for meaning/purpose, the search for a belief system in to which we can trust our faith. I agree there is a lot to be learned from reading texts and learning about other faiths etc., but at some point one will be faced with a decision as to whether to 'buy' into it, and to what extent. . and the religious teachings and spiritual guidance already in existence are the writings, the thoughts of other people . . . only the individual can know, therefore the answer lies within them, whether any given collective, organised faith meets their needs and answers all their questions in a satisfactory way.
    When i was younger i spent a lot of time looking for a philosophical perspective that fitted well with me. I looked into all sorts of books, texts and 'mystical', esoteric corners and found them all lacking. I was so busy searching outwith myself, giving value to the external, I temporarily forgot that searching within was every bit as valid. External constructs required me to take a leap of faith that I wasn't willing or able to undertake. Almost overnight i arrived at the conclusion that life had no objective meaning, and that there was no absolute truth to be found. It was curiously liberating in the sense that I didn't have to search anymore, but does mean that I live with a fair bit of existential nausea . . .
     
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  7. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    Oh right, yes I see. I did indeed misunderstand. Curiously I wondered after I'd written my reply whether I should edit it, cos I wondered if I'd misunderstood.

    Anyway, yes - I'm in total agreement with this. I like the phrase "The only person to answer to is yourself". I don't know if I heard it anywhere, or whether I made it up myself. Ultimately only you know what is best for you.
    And I completely agree with this too. All this "meaning of life" business. It's all a distraction, I think. Life has this "meaning", so we've got to go and search for it, and won't be "happy" until we find it. It's the old fish-in-the-ocean analogy, where the fish swims round asking everyone where "the ocean" is, that he's heard so much about.

    It's a paradox indeed - life becomes easier when you see that life is hard. And life has more whatever-you-want-to-call-it, when you realize it has no meaning or purpose. It just is.

    [Personally I think one of the most difficult questions to ask yourself (and answer) in life is: "What do you want?".]

    I like this phrase too: "Enlightenment is a process of subtraction". Drop all the rubbish, rather than holding onto things, or taking on new external stuff.
     
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  8. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    we are agreeing with each other @lexus300

    I stated i was DISagreeing with these conclusions
     
    lexus300 likes this.
  9. kibosh

    kibosh Star commenter

    And all along the ocean is also IN the fish.

    Exactly. We contain it, like the fish contains the ocean, and we pass through it.
    It's funny you should mention that ole chestnut . . . just last week i realised that I hadn't asked myself that question for a very long time, and that this question was well overdue. So I pondered on what it was that i wanted out of life, what i wanted to have in my future, how i wanted to live in the future, and I simply don't know just now. I have no idea. Weird.
     
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  10. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    Oh yes, that's true too. I'd never actually thought of that, and goodness knows how long ago I heard that story.

    Ta muchly.
     
    kibosh likes this.
  11. kibosh

    kibosh Star commenter

    If I have understood you correctly, I think life's ebbs and flows often take care of a lot of this without too much conscious input from us mortals. We can find ourselves stripped of aspects of ourselves, aspects of our life, that we once viewed as intrinsic to our sense of identity . . . life's random events, chance encounters, failed plans can force us to develop new value systems and goals. We have to rebuild. It's rarely a pleasant experience, but often necessary.
    Perhaps another way of putting it is that you have to, first and foremost, be able to live with yourself, and all relationships with the external are optional add ons.
     
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  12. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    I might need to read this quite a few times in order to understand it.

    Yes, I think this is what I meant. All too often, when analyzing something (often at length), I've arrived at the conclusion that the problem boils down to my believing something. And then I think "Why do I believe that anyway?" And often the answer is only "I only believe that, because I've always believed it". With this realization, I can question and often drop the belief, as it clashes with reality, and is making life difficult.
     
    kibosh likes this.
  13. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    I avoid church religiously
     
    silkywave, Nanny Ogg, Shedman and 4 others like this.
  14. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    Excellent :D. Could be a Tim Vine joke.

    You're coming up with some corkers today.
     
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  15. kibosh

    kibosh Star commenter

    Yip. We fall into habitual patterns. We usually only question whether they (our habitual modes of thinking of behaving, our beliefs) are still working for us, when we hit a snag. Otherwise, we are on autopilot. We stick with our familiar and traditional pathways. Once we have dropped the 'rubbish' we can make more authentic connections with the world around us, even if our emotional and psychological comfort levels have dropped. At a later date we may choose to re-examine the 'rubbish' and may even welcome some of it back into our lives. :)

    With regards to human nature and the human condition: 'never underestimate the power of denial'. Some people are simply not open to exploring other ideas/beliefs even if their 'own' deeply held ideas/beliefs are causing them, and those they are in close contact with, a lot of pain.

    i'm warbling now . . and not generalising in a vague way AT ALL!! :D:oops::oops:
     
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  16. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Salvation is only by God's grace through Christ. Works and trappings have nothing to do with it.
     
    lexus300 likes this.
  17. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    We all react differently to the same stimulus.
     
  18. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Cardinal Melchior would have understood given he was a prince of the Church. The red dot at the bottom towards the right.
    [​IMG]
     
    lexus300 likes this.
  19. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    I would be interested in your basis for such a position.
     
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  20. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    I am afraid you are demonstrating a complete misunderstanding of the scientific method here.
     
    Geoff Thomas and EmanuelShadrack like this.

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