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Discussion in 'Personal' started by lexus300, Oct 19, 2018.
I think you are right
On the whole I think the same. Not sure about all the answers though - the wisdom of others is useful, and I don't know if I'd have worked everything out on my own that I've learned already.
However, if you did really think that all the answers can be found within, then I'd be wondering how that was compatible with "orthodox" religious belief. Christianity does allude to that with "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you", but in my experience this phrase is a distant second to the "God is an external supernatural being" viewpoint.
There's also the phrase: "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him", which describes the situation nicely, albeit a bit violently.
The Church is flawed as humanity is flawed.
Each schism is a realisation of the flaws and an attempt to redeem them. But only creating more schisms and more dissent.
The Pope is flawed.
The Magisterium is flawed
But alone, just one person against the cosmos ...
it is too hard to hold on without the fellowship and guidance of others.
I am an atheist but in my 60+ years I have done the God thing and have been a regular church-goer in the past. I too got fed up with the nastiness, bile and one-upmanship of my 'Christian' associates.
As for trying to understand universal, natural and spiritual laws, good luck. I too have grappled with these ideas and I am still no nearer understanding what this world and life is all about. Why should there be more than this existence? Why must our lives have purpose? Why must there be a God whom we worship and try to understand his/her greater plans for us? I have given up trying to find a meaning for my life and I take each day as it comes. Many days are filled with worthwhile activity and meaningful interaction with others. Other days I just slob out but I thoroughly enjoy the indolence - it's wonderful when you've lost the guilt of not living up to what you suppose are the expectations of some intangible divine being.
Find spirituality and meaning in the seemingly mundane and routine things in your daily existence and try to live your life by 'doing the right thing'. Be courteous and polite to all you meet, take an interest in the lives and achievements of others, do some voluntary work, help others where you can and be supportive of those who are trying to make the world a better place. In doing this you are serving your God and your fellow man/woman far more profitably than you ever could by sitting in the pews every Sunday.
I have now thoroughly exhausted myself with all this philosophical outpouring and so I'm going to bed.
Thank you for starting this thread, and it is good to see it develop without the rancour that seems to occur so often hereabouts.
I was brought up C of E, but I can empathise with your thoughts. I think if I were to engage again with any organised religious group, it would be the Religious Society of Friends, or Quakers. Have a look. They say that Quakers are not converted, but discovered.
I think I will thank you.
Much to ponder here and I will. Thank you.
The last bit threw me never thought about Buddha.
Many thanks to all of you, I will think on it and reread tomorrow.
I can do without the Church but I can't do without God.
What's helped me a lot in recent years are my readings into Stoicism. Stoicism does not take you away from God or the big questions and gives you a really helpful framework for approaching daily life. I won't say more because enthusiasts are... boring.
Me - atheist. Like sadscientist, I have a lot of time for the Quakers.
But I think the best solution would be to take all the good bits from all religions and discard the bad bits.
And this has already been done. I claim no credit, other than for remembering it. It can all be summed up as:
Do not do to others what you would not want done to you.
Personally I can do without God too, but anyway.
I agree with you on Stoicism, or at least as far as I know about it. From what I've read, it seem wholly reasonable, and helpful.
The Quaker religion is almost at the opposite end of the scale to Catholicism in many respects.
A very simple philosophy, with simple gatherings rather than services, where silent thought and quiet discussion form the structure. They believe in living your life through Christian values and that God lives through us in our behaviours towards others. They believe that there is good in everyone. They don't have ministers or priests as such and there is very little/no pomp and circumstance.
They are also open to various ideas regards afterlife and don't live a good life just to get to heaven (and therefore there is not so much of the guilt and punishment stuff that is taught through Catholicism).
I believe that they don't celebrate Easter or Christmas as such, which I find unusual.
Could be a starting point
I disagree, with both your conclusions, that the scientific method is the most effective way of finding out the truth, and that the scientific method shows no evidence of God
I will investigate thank you .
Moving on, you'll have to deny the existence of heaven and hell, now the conundrum for a person who has been brought up a christian or muslim is that by moving on you risk eternal damnation.
All science is flawed, it is based on hypothesis ie., (theory, theorem, thesis, conjecture, supposition, speculation, postulation, postulate, proposition, premise, surmise, assumption, presumption, presupposition) which leads to investigation, interrogation, critical analysis, to arrive at a 'best fit' theory.
I have never accepted eternal damnation as a penalty for thinking for oneself.
Certain brands of Protestantism may suit you then? Please note that doesnt mean I'm recommending any. Non conformist Welsh chapels were pretty cold and basic places with no wealth and pomp at all. That's probably why hardly anyone goes to them any more I guess.