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TLR progression enquiry....

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by HeadTeachersPube, Nov 24, 2009.

  1. I need to support a member of staff who has come to me with the following query regarding their TLR....

    They were a HoD - on a TLR of say 3000......
    They have been appointed in middle management, a position with a TLR of 4500....

    Their point is that because they were already a HoD - their pay for the additional role increases by 1500..... as opposed to if someone who was not already a HoD, who would benefit from the full weight of a pay rise of 4500 if in that role.
    There was no nescessity for the role to be fulfiled by a previously in role HoD.

    It is a case that is someone like this takes on a role, they can only expect the gap between their present TLR and the additional role TLR in renumeration?


     
  2. I need to support a member of staff who has come to me with the following query regarding their TLR....

    They were a HoD - on a TLR of say 3000......
    They have been appointed in middle management, a position with a TLR of 4500....

    Their point is that because they were already a HoD - their pay for the additional role increases by 1500..... as opposed to if someone who was not already a HoD, who would benefit from the full weight of a pay rise of 4500 if in that role.
    There was no nescessity for the role to be fulfiled by a previously in role HoD.

    It is a case that is someone like this takes on a role, they can only expect the gap between their present TLR and the additional role TLR in renumeration?


     
  3. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    Of course. You get paid what the new TLR pays you, not an additional chunk on top of your existing TLR. The new TLR replaces the old one.
     
  4. Thank you Middlemarch.... that is as I thought.

    It does seem though that this member of staff is correct - that it is not really in their interest to take on a whole area of responsibility, in addition to their present role, financially. Someone who came to the role without a present TLR would feel the full financial benfit.

    I guess this is one way of perhaps spreading the wealth around a school and perhaps ensuring responsibilities are distributed rather than lumped on.... but in practice our school is a small secondary with only 450 students, so people are destined to double up.
     
  5. tafkam

    tafkam Occasional commenter

    If you are expecting them to take on this role in addition to remaining as HOD for their department, then the TLR should reflect this wider remit. But that doesn't mean totalling the two previous TLRs together!
     
  6. Really Tafkam?

    I am stuck on this one to be honest. I want to support this staff member as I can see what their point is - but I don't know and have no presidents to follow on it.

    OK - So if I am to represent them and pose this, what can I present?
    They are remaining as a HoD, and taking on a role in middle management.
     
  7. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    But as the TLR offered IS greater than the previous one, the greater responsibilities of the new post ARE being reflected in the new salary.
    The staff member has the choice to decline the new post - but as the TLR has been set and does represent an increased salary for greater responsibilty, I can't see grounds for complaint.
     
  8. tafkam

    tafkam Occasional commenter

    Please be assured, I'm not saying that the new post must have a higher TLR, only that if the new postholder is going to be taking on a new role in addition to their existing TLR role, then a new job is being created.
    For example, imagine the RE Subject Leader is on the lowest TLR2a. The Assessment Co-ordinator, on TLR2b, leaves. RE Subject Leader is appointed to the post. The school has the option of
    (a) trying to recruit a replacement Subject Leader
    (b) creating a new role of Assessment Co-ordinator/RE Subject Leader
    The school is then entitled to give that post a TLR of 2b if the consider it falls into that bracket in their pay scheme. But it may be deemed that the additional responsibility of holding both posts warrans a slightly higher payment. Not necessarily as high as 2a+2b, but a higher payment within the range nevertheless.
    Of course, schools are also restricted in as much as, they can't offer a TLR 2b and a half... it's either worth the next point up, or it isn't.
     
  9. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    I know exactly what you're saying, tafkam - andas I've pointed out, the TLR offered is higher than the postholder's previous one. That the postholder thinks s/he should get more is neither here noe there, of course - s/he can either accpet the new post with the increased salary or reject it.
    What seems to be confusing the issue for the poster and the postholder is the notion that if someone were appointed from mainscale, they would 'get a bigger jump in salary' - which is a daft argument and entirely irrelevant, since the pay attached to a TLR is not adjusted to give a specific 'increase' to an individual's pay related to what that individual is already being paid.
     
  10. ScienceGuy

    ScienceGuy Occasional commenter

    There is a disparity though. There are two outcomes when interviewing. One is a main scale teacher getting the TLR of £4500. The other is the teacher who is already head of subject getting this new TLR in addition to his other duties but being paid the same which means he is doing more work than someone else would have to but without the financial recognition. Whether he has to be paid more I d not know and would leave those discussions to posters with more knowledge. My only advice to the original query would be for the person with both jobs to resign the TLR / responsibility for their subject so they can focus on their new role.
     
  11. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    I don't understand the point you're making - has a main scale teacher also been given this TLR, but without a subject HOD role as part of it?
    It seems to me that your colleague has been asked to take on an additional role and his salary increased - therefore, his HOD role added to the additional responsibility - as a result.
    He does not 'have to be paid more' than he is - he IS being paid more. That some people might feel it's worth more is neither here nor there (and, frankly, not knowing the school or the circumstances, let alone the job he's doing, we are in no position at all to comment) - this is what the school is offering.
     
  12. ScienceGuy

    ScienceGuy Occasional commenter

    The point I was trying to make was that a new TLR was available for approx £4500. An existing HoD on a £3000 TLR was successful in getting the job. This person now has both responsibilities but is only getting the money for the second one.
    At my school it is much simpler - we have a policy of not allowing teachers to hold two TLR positions at the same time unless there is no reasonable alternative. This would avoid the OPs colleague's problem
     
  13. Piranha

    Piranha Lead commenter

    I have seen this sort of thing before, and it does seem a little odd. However, provided that the conditions were made clear at the time applications were invited, I don't think that the member of staff can complain. If they didn't like the terms, they shouldn't have applied for the job. There is extra money, and many would also see it as a chance to move into middle management, improving the prospect of higher things in the future.
    If it wasn't made clear, there probably are grounds for a complaint, althought the school could simply say "take it or leave it".
     
  14. How I understand this is that it's unfair for the person who has taken on the extra responsibility of middle management....
    Person 1 HoD + MM post = £4500
    Person 2 just MM post = £4500

    Person 2 is therefore doing less work than Person 1, so how can it be right that they be paid the same amount?

     

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