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TLR at Academy Trust Primary School

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by HNS, Oct 6, 2019.

  1. HNS

    HNS New commenter

    I am a teacher on Main Pay Scale at an Academy Trust run primary school and have been told that I must take on a Subject Leadership role for the school. I will receive no additional PPA time or TLR payment. My question is: Do I have a choice?

    I already work as much in my own time, away from school as I do in school to keep up with paperwork and to attend compulsory after school training meetings. This equates to something like a seventy hour week.
  2. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    You do have a choice - you find another school.
  3. Flanks

    Flanks Senior commenter

    It is more or less the norm that this happens in primary schools. There is very rarely a layer of middle management, and most of them are too small to have sufficient funds for economy of scale.
  4. HNS

    HNS New commenter

    So, is it the norm for primary teachers to attend three hours of training each week and take home more than twenty hours of paper work to complete at home?
    This teacher feels like there is no work life balance and ultimately will have to suffer in terms of personal health and relationship consequences.
    jlishman2158 likes this.
  5. HNS

    HNS New commenter

    Or find alternative career path....
    jlishman2158 and tall tales like this.
  6. shevington

    shevington Occasional commenter

    Go to another school. Three hours training per week ,what for, ? Speak to your Union. Give up all your free time and good will to the school. Check out how well paid HT and SMT are at your school .
    jlishman2158 and tall tales like this.
  7. sooooexcited

    sooooexcited Established commenter

    There's no point moving to another primary school. I cannot think of one primary in which anyone above NQT is not a subject leader (unless there are more staff than subjects and even then, people tend to jointly lead).

    You will be a subject leader without payment just like everyone else I'm afraid so I suggest approaching it as positively as possible, particularly with the new framework and focus on foundation subjects. Ask for any CPD you need and try to embrace it.
  8. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Most teachers in most primaries have a subject leader role of some kind. There is rarely any kind of payment or time, apart from English and Maths and not always even then.

    However 3 hours a week of training and 20 hours of work at home are not normal.

    Find a different school.
  9. HNS

    HNS New commenter

    Have decided that I will refuse to take on the role and explain that the existing workload is already unmanageable. I am prepared to undertake training if it will improve my skill set and enable a work life balance eventually.

    In the event they insist on my taking on the additional responsibility, then I will just have to tell them that I will need to start letting other stuff slide. There's only so much one person can do.
  10. HNS

    HNS New commenter

    Have just worked out my working hours for last week, 66
  11. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    It's important to say this.
    There's way too much of "well,that's normal" or "actually I do more" when the reality is that we are profession of broken overworked wrecks a lot of the time.
    Only one reason-Because we take it.


    Quite often if you raise the issue of workload, your card becomes marked, or it is stated that if you don't like it then you are somehow failing in your endeavour. The workload issue is couched in this sort of oppression which ultimately leads so many to find another job path....hmmm
    jlishman2158 likes this.
  12. sooooexcited

    sooooexcited Established commenter

    To be clear, you can't refuse to take on subject leadership.
  13. starlightexpress

    starlightexpress Occasional commenter

    As others have said, taking on subject responsibility is pretty standard for all teachers, except NQTs, in a primary school.

    Regarding three hours of training per week:
    1. Is it valuable/ helpful?
    2. Is it assigned under the directed time?
    It needs to be under directed time, however if it’s useful and it’s viewed as a good offer, Teachers might attend anyway for CPD.

    Regarding, the take home part, this can be variable. It depends if it’s based on what the school is expecting or if it’s down to what you feel you need to do to meet your own standards. I say that because all the teachers I know who work those hours cite this. I’ve not known a school to direct those hours. Perhaps it’s a step back to look at what you’re spending time doing and if there are bits that are not as necessary to do? Maybe looking at how you’re spending your time in work? For example, do you mark in the moment with the children? How do you spend your lunch break? Your post feels not just about the the subject, it’s also about overall hours and workload. Look around you, is every teacher doing the same? Is it certain activities you’re taking home? What is the paperwork you’re taking home? Do you need to take things home? MAT schools, in my experience, rely less on paperwork and have online systems, which support work life balance. Is it a case of thinking what’s essential to get done and what’s an extra or an add on. If, after trying to make changes, you genuinely can’t do a teacher role (without leadership parts) without doing 70 hour weeks every week, then it is either the wrong school or wrong job. You’re right- you can’t sustain relationships or wellbeing with those hours every week.
  14. paulstevenjones

    paulstevenjones New commenter

    You cannot refuse it. You will be in breech of your contractual obligation.
  15. HNS

    HNS New commenter

    Okay, so will I take on the role required having explained that I will work at least suitable hours as commensurate with my role but expect and accept that some parts of my work will not be achievable in that time.

    No CPD ever takes place during directed time, they are always after school hours.
  16. starlightexpress

    starlightexpress Occasional commenter

    Some out of school hours is assigned as directed time. This is for things like meetings, parent evenings etc.
  17. TheOracleAtDelphi

    TheOracleAtDelphi Established commenter

    3 hours every week seems a lot but is this partly due to twilighted inset days?

    I do have a solution to the subject leadership issue but you're not going to like it - you could become a supply teacher...as yet I've not been asked to lead a subject area, although I guess there is always a first time for everything. On the other hand, hello to uncertainty, never being entirely sure whether you will have work tomorrow or next week, no teacher pension, no sick pay, no annualised salary etc etc.

    I know that sounds negative and I do have a huge amount of sympathy for your high workload levels - I see a lot of different schools so see first hand how much variation there can be in terms of workload owing to different marking and planning policies.

    Could you negotiate some release time if they are expecting a lot in terms of subject leadership? I have a strong suspicion that some schools are seriously freaking out about ofsted and the deep dives which might easily correlate to extra pressure on subject leadership staff. I know I have sometimes done cover for teachers in such a situation where they get a whole day or afternoon every term or half term rather than a little bit of time each week.

    P.S. Starlight - although I'm reluctant to quibble with you when I agree on most things, I'm not overly convinced that online systems really do contribute that much to a work life balance - yes you can do it at home (providing the system is working, you don't have internet connectivity issues etc.) but I'm not sure a lot of it is actually useful or helpful - clicking stupid hexagons to artificially create a level that matches the predetermined level that each child has to be at regardless of whether they are actually there or not or whether we've even taught half the things on the list is not a terribly productive use of my time. :mad: But I digress ;)
  18. HNS

    HNS New commenter

    Of course, but I am talking about a minimum of three hours per week of staff training, - not parent meetings or phase meetings which are to be generally expected anyway.
  19. vannie

    vannie Star commenter

    3 hours a week of ‘training’ sounds like ridiculous box ticking to me. If it’s constant through the year how on earth can they possibly expect you to reflect and act on what you have learned. And if you’re not expected to do that then I’d be asking what it’s all actually for. I’m really sorry this is happening to you. You must be completely overloaded. I don’t think this is sustainable. I would get out as quickly as ever you can.
    FWIW I am a subject leader for a core subject. I work hard at it but if I’m working on something specific I am given extra time during directed hours. There are better places to work. Get out.
  20. starlightexpress

    starlightexpress Occasional commenter

    It’s a LOT of time. I’ve worked in different organisations and have never come across this. That, every week, would exceed DT by a long shot! I’ve only ever known it to be 1.25 hours/ week.

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