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Timescale for pension challenge

Discussion in 'Retirement' started by pentagonal, Jan 12, 2020.

  1. pentagonal

    pentagonal New commenter

    Does anyone know when it will get sorted out?
    What is the most likely scenario?
  2. Dorsetdreams

    Dorsetdreams Occasional commenter

    It occurred to me today when I was out for a run (best thinking time) that the way to sort this out would be to give members a choice, in 2022 or possibly at the time of retirement, on which scheme they wish to be considered to have been a part of, from the period between their transfer and 2022. The only potential unfairness I can see in that is those who have opted for extra Career Average benefits (faster accrual, buy-out of 3 years of AAB) won't really be getting much of a choice. As far as I can see, this solution would fulfil the promise of no one becoming worse off.
  3. diddydave

    diddydave Established commenter

    Short answer is No.

    What we have to go on is the Firefighter's tribunal. The union have posted that an interim decision, affecting immediate cases only, is to put them back on the original scheme and that a full decision will be made by July 2020.

    There government has promised to apply the principles of the tribunal's restitution to all public service pension but there are differences between them. For instance for the teachers pensions both schemes cost the teacher the same but in the firefighters the new scheme costs them less.

    So until July we won't know what the scenario for the firefighters will be and then we won't know about our own scheme until how it can be applied to it is figured out.

    In addition we have a government promise that no-one will be worse off - some teachers are better off under the Career Average scheme and there are the range of flexibilities to consider as well if teacher's have opted for them.

    My personal opinion is that it will involve several calculations to figure out exactly what each person's pension will be. One calculation may be as though you'd been fully in the final salary scheme, though possibly only up to 2022 (this is the date when everyone, regardless of age, would have been transferred to the CA scheme anyway). The calculations needed may also discriminate between the pension you'd receive at each of your scheme's NPA (pension age)...so you may have a change in your pension, getting one from 60 and then another from 67 etc.
  4. jonnymarr

    jonnymarr New commenter

    This was interesting reading, even though it's about other schemes affected.

    Suffice to say, 'it's complicated'. It's not unheard of for pension schemes to introduce the idea of 'you get the better of two calculations at a certain point in time', so I'm with DD above as far as predictions go.
  5. Prim

    Prim Occasional commenter

    Isn't the CARE scheme only more advantageous if you can manage to stay in the classroom and pay it until you are 67? This seems very unlikely :(
  6. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

    In some ways this is actually quite easy.

    The calculators can already do the old scheme (it’s been doing it for years), and is currently doing the new scheme.

    Setting them up might be complicated, but that’s been done already.

    Once calculated, offer both, you choose.

    I’m not getting any complexity at all.
  7. diddydave

    diddydave Established commenter

    I agree with you that once the method is agreed the actual calculations are going to be easily automated but I'd suggest that the complicated part is getting agreement on what those calculations will be and how they will cover all eventualities. For instance the CA scheme has been in place since April 2015, that is 57 months where teachers could have been in or out of it...that's 57 variations of them having one month out, then there are the 1596 combinations of having two months out (57 x 56 / 2), for 3 months there are 29,260 variations...just on the monthly variations there are 140 quadrillion (140 followed by 15 zeros) then add in to this that for any of these combinations there are the same permutations possible for someone choosing faster accrual at two different rates.

    It could well be that as a maths teacher I'm getting hung up on the puzzle rather than the reality - clearly there are a lot less actual teachers than there are possibilities...we don't have quadrillions of teachers...but it does mean that at some point someone is going to have to lump a lot of these variations together and produce a one-size solution to fit them and it's through this that the potential for someone to miss out occurs.
    PeterQuint likes this.
  8. stotty99

    stotty99 New commenter

    Just seen an email on the TES from a company called Pension Challenge? Looks like they will take a fee of £1500. Should I use them?
    Secondly, I am not sure who is effected. I started teaching in 1998 and hopefully I will still be teaching in 10-20 years time (currently 44). Will I be effected by this?
  9. diddydave

    diddydave Established commenter

    The NEU advise ignoring it...the firefighter's have already won the battle and the employment tribunal is to decide on how to put the scheme right for them.

    The Government had already said that they will apply the tribunal's decision to ALL of the public sector pension, teachers included.

    The feeling from the union, I believe, is that you'd be paying £1500 (+VAT) for nothing more than you'll be getting anyway.
    stotty99 and strawbs like this.

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