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Threatening a member of staff...

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by lovejoy_antiques, Jan 20, 2020.

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A ks4 student threatens to punch you in the face. What sanction?

  1. Permanent exclusion.

    5 vote(s)
    23.8%
  2. 2 day fixed term exclusion.

    9 vote(s)
    42.9%
  3. 1 day fixed term exclusion.

    3 vote(s)
    14.3%
  4. 1 day Internal isolation.

    1 vote(s)
    4.8%
  5. 2 lessons spent with the head of year.

    1 vote(s)
    4.8%
  6. Trip to McDonald's.

    2 vote(s)
    9.5%
  1. lovejoy_antiques

    lovejoy_antiques Senior commenter

    Hi,

    On long term supply. Had a nasty incident on Friday, so decided to conduct a straw poll ...
     
  2. abwdSTEM

    abwdSTEM Occasional commenter

    I think it depends on how serious the threat was.

    Starting with an actual punch then thats a permanent exclusion and Police involvement.

    Then you get a serious threat where the student meant to do so but was only stopped by classmates, that should also be a permanent exclusion. But at the other extreme you might get a student who temporally"lost the plot" and made a threat without thinking. They didn't intend to carry out the threat and regretted it afterwards. Still an exclusion but a shorter one of a day or two.

    In between you have varying levels of threat for which varying lengths of exclusion should apply. No one answer and the length depending on each individual circumstance. But an exclusion in any case,
     
  3. ellenlilymay

    ellenlilymay New commenter

    I actually had a Y10 student who threw a hard sweet directly at my face, hitting me between the eyes, and giving me acute headaches for 2-3 days afterwards: he received 1 day's exclusion from the school, so I think the threat of a punch is more serious and would earn him 2 days' exclusion, unfortunately too often perceived as days off!!
     
    pepper5 likes this.
  4. The-Gaffer

    The-Gaffer Occasional commenter

    I agree with @abwdSTEM its heavily context depending

    I once had “don’t come back tomorrow or I’ll stab you” - I was on long term supply I did go back & he didn’t stab me

    he actually said “Effin’ great you’re here”

    But since you’ve described it as a nasty incident I’m assuming it was said in such a way as to make you believe the offer was genuine.

    I’d have spoken to the HOY & HOD & taken my lead from them. As a supply our hands are kind of tied regarding insisting on a specific punishment.

    what I can tell you though is if I felt unsafe at the school I wouldn’t return.
    also if a kid did punch me & I felt it was in the slightest bit deliberate I’d inform the Head that I would be contacting the police. I wouldn’t necessarily expect to work there again but I would be able to sleep at night knowing I did what was right for me.

    for what it’s worth I had a kid say “I’m going to punch you in your fat head” on Friday as well. However I work in a PRU, know the child & know he didn’t mean it. If he had followed through it would have resulted in a trip to police station. Given the only thing I had said to provoke him was good morning.
     
    JohnJCazorla and hendo2015 like this.
  5. lovejoy_antiques

    lovejoy_antiques Senior commenter

    I'd class this one as a definite attempt at intimidation. Conversation went along the lines of ....

    Me: "Can you put your phone away in class thank you"
    Student: "I'm allowed to have my phone out in class"
    Me: "that's not what it says in the school rules now please can you put it in your bag or pocket."
    Student: "*** other teachers let us"
    Me: "Either you put your phone away or it goes on the teacher's desk at the front"
    Student: "you touch my phone and you'll get a punch in the face."
     
  6. lovejoy_antiques

    lovejoy_antiques Senior commenter

    Sanction was option 5, 2 lessons. Nothing too draconian then. We need to move with the times. No restorative conversation, no apology.
     
  7. Happyregardless

    Happyregardless Occasional commenter

    I'm confused.

    Is it what we think what they will get from a 'supportive SMT' ( :rolleyes:excuse the eye roll)
    or what WE think the blighters should get?;)
     
  8. lovejoy_antiques

    lovejoy_antiques Senior commenter

    Ok, I was thinking what should happen in any sane world!
     
    pepper5 likes this.
  9. historygrump

    historygrump Lead commenter Forum guide

    The student should be excluded from school, I once had a student threaten me, he said he was joking, but the permanent teacher who happen to hear him, said no and he was removed straight away from the class and automatically given an HT detention and a visit to the HT as well. He was not laughing afterwards.

    If a student actually hits a teacher then it should be a permanent exclusion and reported to the police as an assault, then the message may feed back to the other kids of what is and is not acceptable behaviour in schools and life.
     
    agathamorse, ms honey and pepper5 like this.
  10. freshfriesan

    freshfriesan Occasional commenter

    reading this, im really beginning to think the place i worked for 6 years was doing some weird experiment of"doing nothing" seriously, whatever was going on in my life at the time (needing to keep a roof over me and my sons head and food on the table etc) i took a lot of ****. i went to the effort of reporting being sworn at frequently, nothing happened, i got kicked and pushed a fair bit, nothing happened, bar getting asked if i was in the kids way. a colleague intervened in a fight there and got punched in the head. she did go to police, ended up completely ostracised and broken by the incident.

    then theres the improvised knife i took off a kid last winter, where management literally did nothing but bare faced lied to me about it. she clearly wasnt counting on the kid being in the first lesson i taught on the monday morning. i would say a two day exclusion should be what happens for a serious threat. tho i know how these places operate, i speak from the experiences ive had and seen nothing happen for worse. i didnt realise how ill all this has made me till i give it a bit of thought. everything happens for a reason. theres no way i could really go back into these places, ive really reached my limit of it all and its the feeling of some kind of threat forom all angles makes me shudder and clam up. threats from kids, threats from management, the looming threat of more and more work and new initiatives and all that nonsense jazz...ive got to find a way thru all this. tho i am functioning im feeling pretty incabable of anything, any line of work atall. like ive reached my limit of interacting with people on any level. as if my soul has been pulled from me. its good to come and read this stuff as it makes me shudder and judder and my resolve stronger, reminds me why im a hermit on a one man strike and thats the truth. the unions, well nasuwt were as much use as chocolate tea pot 9 years back when i was getting hauled thru it. i just want to put it all to bed and geton with my life but get some kind of compensation in the way them at the top pass bribery and blackmail money and all that between themselves, which they do. the top end of education is very much favours for favours and heeres a task for you to complete to prove your worth andruthlessness and uselessness . i very much believe this. its a wweird network at the top of education and i think it has become a bit weirder with academisation.

    a funny thing i remember from the teachers standards way back in about 2005 was a standard that said something about "embracing the corporate nature of schools and education" so there we have it , part of it is about loyalty to the company chain and that. it just all stinks and i dont want my grand son anywhere near it not myself.
     
  11. lovejoy_antiques

    lovejoy_antiques Senior commenter

    I once again came home from work totally fed up. I keep reminding myself I need the money. And in school reminding myself I'm being paid to be tolerant of other people's obnoxious children. If the quiet lunatics were running the asylum it wouldn't be too bad. Unfortunately it's the gobby ones!
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  12. elvispenhaligon

    elvispenhaligon Occasional commenter

    I have a 2 CRB checks of different sorts, both detailed. I have no criminal record and I'm a nice guy. Ask anyone who knows me and I'm a great bloke.

    About 10 years ago, I was doing supply in Plymouth at a "difficult school". I am massive, I'm 6'4 and huge, although that doesn't influence my manner. I was in for a few weeks to cover an absent colleague. I did my best and got some good progress. I had one lad who was Y11 and as big as me square up to me and say "getyerfuckingaircutyerfuckinhippycunt" (I had long hair back then). About 5cm away from my face.

    Needless to say, my degree, years of study, all of my NQT standards nonsense and box ticking and hard work I'd put in flashed in front of my face. "I have to take a beating otherwise I'll lose my ticket".

    This bit of supply was during a bit where CS were taking over, jobs were at a minimum post credit crunch and I was desperate to be a proper human being, one with a job, a house, a wife, family and future. I cannot communicate how paralysed and emasculated I felt.

    I went to the pub that evening with a couple of mates for a pint and a chat. I was angry, it was terrible. I thought "you know what, I have all of these kids with all of this power and they can wipe my whole life out in a second, fk that". I'm in tomorrow and if this situation repeats, I will bin the whole thing and make an absolute example out of this miscreant and if I have to do jail time or lose my ticket, so be it. Nothing would make me feel like that again, ever. ~

    Anyway, this lad walked up to me and I got the red mist of "here we go" "hospital or not hospital" and I had the whole flight or fight about to descend. My career flashed in front of me. Do I try and break my hand hitting him in the face across the room or do I live for the next day for someone else to do it again. Roll the dice, can you live or are you fired. Is your world binned for having to deal with this.

    Anyway, he apologised. We we all good and in the last 10 years or so, everything has been great.

    I don't get paid enough to get upset and there is no-way I'd go back to mainstream education. It's not the sword of damocles in terms of inspections, monitoring, changing goal posts, asssholees for colleagues or any of the other nonsense. It is that you are operating in a habitat where there is a crazy unstable bitey tiger of authority which for whatever reason may decide to eat you and in one foul swoop of the tigers whim, you will be destroyed, unless you turn into a characterless lamb.

    Fk that.
     
    tonymars likes this.
  13. lovejoy_antiques

    lovejoy_antiques Senior commenter

    I've had that where it all flashes before your eyes. We all still have that fight or flight thing and the kid has nothing to lose and the chance to look tough in front of their pals. We have a whole career on the line. I had a year 11 once go nose to nose with me once because he thought I'd looked at him funny (same technique used to start fights in rough pubs and taxi ranks). Anyway I ended up in a restorative meeting with the kid chaired by an assistant head who's opening gambit was: "I'm not here to apportion blame". Absolutely pathetic, mealy mouthed b*** s***!
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  14. lovejoy_antiques

    lovejoy_antiques Senior commenter

    Just to follow up on the original incident. The head of year for the student that threatened me (the guy who I had to report the incident to about being threatened with a punch for asking for a phone to be put away) was in the classroom opposite me yesterday. I couldn't help but notice how many kids in his room had phones out and air pods in.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  15. a1976

    a1976 Occasional commenter

    I just wonder why people have not constructed a website that names and shames these schools.
     
  16. lovejoy_antiques

    lovejoy_antiques Senior commenter

    I had a laser pen shone in my face today and SLT were trying to get the perpetrator back in the lesson for a second chance. Me and my antiquated, draconian views relating to consequences for people's actions just don't sit well with the modern world. I feel like such a throwback to a bygone age where teachers weren't just rubber toys for the loonies to chew on.
     

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