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Thread for responses to RE & E Bacc

Discussion in 'Religious Education' started by poppy2004, Dec 15, 2010.

  1. poppy2004

    poppy2004 New commenter

    Because there are so many threads now about the status of RE I thought it might be worth starting one for any responses that anyone recieves.
    I have now had two (I had originally sent an email in November but didn't hear anything so kept on resending it...) which i will include below. If anyone else hears anything post it below so we can try and figure out the ambiguity of them...

     
  2. poppy2004

    poppy2004 New commenter

    Response 1:
    Thank you for your email of 28 November to the Secretary of State about the humanities subjects that will form part of the English Baccalaureate. Due to the large volume of letters the Secretary of State receives, I have been asked to respond to your question.
    The English Baccalaureate has been introduced due to concerns that the number of students who currently receive a broad education in core academic subjects is far too small. This is particularly the case for students in disadvantaged areas. The English Baccalaureate is designed to recognise the success of those students who attain GCSEs or iGCSEs at grade A*-C across a small core of academic subjects. The subjects included in the English Baccalaureate will be English, maths, history or geography, the sciences and a language. It is hoped the English Baccalaureate will encourage more students to study these core subjects and open up opportunities for all students to have the chance to study them regardless of which school they go to. Special recognition will be given in the performance tables to those schools which help their students attain this breadth of achievement and the achievement of individual students will be marked through a certificate.
    However, whilst the English Baccalaureate will give students the opportunity to study a core of academic subjects, it does not mean that their choices or opportunities for wider or further study will be restricted. The core of subjects in the English Baccalaureate is small enough to allow students to choose other qualifications and areas of study that are of interest to them. Study in other subjects will be just as, or possibly more, valuable to young people depending on what they want to go on to do after 16. It is therefore important that their study choices are based on what they need so they can progress in the way they would like. We recognise the wider benefits that studying subjects such as Religious Education and Philosophy and Applied Ethics can bring and we will encourage all students to study non-English Baccalaureate subjects alongside the core subjects so they get a well rounded education.
     
  3. poppy2004

    poppy2004 New commenter

    Response 2:
    <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt;" id="yiv2072156670Table1"><tr><td colspan="2">Thank you for your email dated 28 November 2010 to the Secretary of State about humanities subjects in the curriculum. As a member of the Secretary of State's correspondence team, I have been asked to reply.
    </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2">
    For the 2010 Performance Tables only history or geography will count towards the humanities element of the English Baccalaureate (EBacc). The Department will review the precise definition of the EBacc for the 2011 Tables, but would not expect to remove any of the qualifications identified for the 2010 Tables. A full list of what will count towards the EBacc measure for the 2010 performance tables can be found at: http://www.education.gov.uk/performancetables/Statement-of-Intent-2010-Addendum.pdf

    The English Baccalaureate has been introduced because the Government is concerned that the number of pupils who currently receive a broad education in core academic subjects is far too small. This is particularly the case for pupils in disadvantaged areas. The English Baccalaureate is designed to recognise the success of those students who attain GCSEs or iGCSEs at grade A*-C across a core of academic subjects. We want to encourage more pupils to study these core subjects and to open up opportunities for all students to have the chance to study them regardless of which school they go to. We will give special recognition in the performance tables to those schools which are helping their pupils attain this breadth and we will mark individual pupils&rsquo; achievements through a certificate. Whilst the English Baccalaureate will give pupils the opportunity to study a core of academic subjects, it does not mean that we wish to restrict their choices or opportunities for wider study and the core of subjects is small enough to allow for that. Study in other subjects will be just as valuable to pupils and we will encourage all pupils to study non- English Baccalaureate subjects alongside the core English Baccalaureate in order to get a well rounded education.
    The Government recognises, as many schools do, the benefits that religious education can bring to pupils. This is why the teaching of religious studies remains compulsory throughout a pupil's schooling. Success in all subjects studied at GCSE will also continue to be recognised by other performance table measures, as it has in the past.

    </td></tr></table><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt;" id="yiv2072156670Table1"><tr><td colspan="2">Thank you for your email dated 28 November 2010 to the Secretary of State about humanities subjects in the curriculum. As a member of the Secretary of State's correspondence team, I have been asked to reply.
    </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2">
    For the 2010 Performance Tables only history or geography will count towards the humanities element of the English Baccalaureate (EBacc). The Department will review the precise definition of the EBacc for the 2011 Tables, but would not expect to remove any of the qualifications identified for the 2010 Tables. A full list of what will count towards the EBacc measure for the 2010 performance tables can be found at: http://www.education.gov.uk/performancetables/Statement-of-Intent-2010-Addendum.pdf

    The English Baccalaureate has been introduced because the Government is concerned that the number of pupils who currently receive a broad education in core academic subjects is far too small. This is particularly the case for pupils in disadvantaged areas. The English Baccalaureate is designed to recognise the success of those students who attain GCSEs or iGCSEs at grade A*-C across a core of academic subjects. We want to encourage more pupils to study these core subjects and to open up opportunities for all students to have the chance to study them regardless of which school they go to. We will give special recognition in the performance tables to those schools which are helping their pupils attain this breadth and we will mark individual pupils&rsquo; achievements through a certificate. Whilst the English Baccalaureate will give pupils the opportunity to study a core of academic subjects, it does not mean that we wish to restrict their choices or opportunities for wider study and the core of subjects is small enough to allow for that. Study in other subjects will be just as valuable to pupils and we will encourage all pupils to study non- English Baccalaureate subjects alongside the core English Baccalaureate in order to get a well rounded education.
    The Government recognises, as many schools do, the benefits that religious education can bring to pupils. This is why the teaching of religious studies remains compulsory throughout a pupil's schooling. Success in all subjects studied at GCSE will also continue to be recognised by other performance table measures, as it has in the past.

    </td></tr></table>Thank you for your email dated 28 November 2010 to the Secretary of State about humanities subjects in the curriculum. As a member of the Secretary of State's correspondence team, I have been asked to reply.For the 2010 Performance Tables only history or geography will count towards the humanities element of the English Baccalaureate (EBacc). The Department will review the precise definition of the EBacc for the 2011 Tables, but would not expect to remove any of the qualifications identified for the 2010 Tables. A full list of what will count towards the EBacc measure for the 2010 performance tables can be found at: http://www.education.gov.uk/performancetables/Statement-of-Intent-2010-Addendum.pdf

    The English Baccalaureate has been introduced because the Government is concerned that the number of pupils who currently receive a broad education in core academic subjects is far too small. This is particularly the case for pupils in disadvantaged areas. The English Baccalaureate is designed to recognise the success of those students who attain GCSEs or iGCSEs at grade A*-C across a core of academic subjects. We want to encourage more pupils to study these core subjects and to open up opportunities for all students to have the chance to study them regardless of which school they go to. We will give special recognition in the performance tables to those schools which are helping their pupils attain this breadth and we will mark individual pupils&rsquo; achievements through a certificate. Whilst the English Baccalaureate will give pupils the opportunity to study a core of academic subjects, it does not mean that we wish to restrict their choices or opportunities for wider study and the core of subjects is small enough to allow for that. Study in other subjects will be just as valuable to pupils and we will encourage all pupils to study non- English Baccalaureate subjects alongside the core English Baccalaureate in order to get a well rounded education. The Government recognises, as many schools do, the benefits that religious education can bring to pupils. This is why the teaching of religious studies remains compulsory throughout a pupil's schooling. Success in all subjects studied at GCSE will also continue to be recognised by other performance table measures, as it has in the past.
    <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt;" id="yiv2072156670Table1"><tr><td colspan="2">Thank you for your email dated 28 November 2010 to the Secretary of State about humanities subjects in the curriculum. As a member of the Secretary of State's correspondence team, I have been asked to reply.
    </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2">
    For the 2010 Performance Tables only history or geography will count towards the humanities element of the English Baccalaureate (EBacc). The Department will review the precise definition of the EBacc for the 2011 Tables, but would not expect to remove any of the qualifications identified for the 2010 Tables. A full list of what will count towards the EBacc measure for the 2010 performance tables can be found at: http://www.education.gov.uk/performancetables/Statement-of-Intent-2010-Addendum.pdf

    </td></tr></table><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt;" id="yiv2072156670Table1"><tr><td colspan="2">Thank you for your email dated 28 November 2010 to the Secretary of State about humanities subjects in the curriculum. As a member of the Secretary of State's correspondence team, I have been asked to reply.
    </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2">
    For the 2010 Performance Tables only history or geography will count towards the humanities element of the English Baccalaureate (EBacc). The Department will review the precise definition of the EBacc for the 2011 Tables, but would not expect to remove any of the qualifications identified for the 2010 Tables. A full list of what will count towards the EBacc measure for the 2010 performance tables can be found at: http://www.education.gov.uk/performancetables/Statement-of-Intent-2010-Addendum.pdf

    The English Baccalaureate has been introduced because the Government is concerned that the number of pupils who currently receive a broad education in core academic subjects is far too small. This is particularly the case for pupils in disadvantaged areas. The English Baccalaureate is designed to recognise the success of those students who attain GCSEs or iGCSEs at grade A*-C across a core of academic subjects. We want to encourage more pupils to study these core subjects and to open up opportunities for all students to have the chance to study them regardless of which school they go to. We will give special recognition in the performance tables to those schools which are helping their pupils attain this breadth and we will mark individual pupils&rsquo; achievements through a certificate. Whilst the English Baccalaureate will give pupils the opportunity to study a core of academic subjects, it does not mean that we wish to restrict their choices or opportunities for wider study and the core of subjects is small enough to allow for that. Study in other subjects will be just as valuable to pupils and we will encourage all pupils to study non- English Baccalaureate subjects alongside the core English Baccalaureate in order to get a well rounded education.
    The Government recognises, as many schools do, the benefits that religious education can bring to pupils. This is why the teaching of religious studies remains compulsory throughout a pupil's schooling. Success in all subjects studied at GCSE will also continue to be recognised by other performance table measures, as it has in the past.

    </td></tr></table><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt;" id="yiv2072156670Table1"><tr><td colspan="2">Thank you for your email dated 28 November 2010 to the Secretary of State about humanities subjects in the curriculum. As a member of the Secretary of State's correspondence team, I have been asked to reply.
    </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2">
    For the 2010 Performance Tables only history or geography will count towards the humanities element of the English Baccalaureate (EBacc). The Department will review the precise definition of the EBacc for the 2011 Tables, but would not expect to remove any of the qualifications identified for the 2010 Tables. A full list of what will count towards the EBacc measure for the 2010 performance tables can be found at: http://www.education.gov.uk/performancetables/Statement-of-Intent-2010-Addendum.pdf

    The English Baccalaureate has been introduced because the Government is concerned that the number of pupils who currently receive a broad education in core academic subjects is far too small. This is particularly the case for pupils in disadvantaged areas. The English Baccalaureate is designed to recognise the success of those students who attain GCSEs or iGCSEs at grade A*-C across a core of academic subjects. We want to encourage more pupils to study these core subjects and to open up opportunities for all students to have the chance to study them regardless of which school they go to. We will give special recognition in the performance tables to those schools which are helping their pupils attain this breadth and we will mark individual pupils&rsquo; achievements through a certificate. Whilst the English Baccalaureate will give pupils the opportunity to study a core of academic subjects, it does not mean that we wish to restrict their choices or opportunities for wider study and the core of subjects is small enough to allow for that. Study in other subjects will be just as valuable to pupils and we will encourage all pupils to study non- English Baccalaureate subjects alongside the core English Baccalaureate in order to get a well rounded education.
    The Government recognises, as many schools do, the benefits that religious education can bring to pupils. This is why the teaching of religious studies remains compulsory throughout a pupil's schooling. Success in all subjects studied at GCSE will also continue to be recognised by other performance table measures, as it has in the past.

    </td></tr></table>
     
  4. I heard yesterday that the education authorities in the Church of England are pushing to have RE included too.
     
  5. The Catholic Education Service is doing the same.
     
  6. durgamata

    durgamata Occasional commenter

    Good,

    Perhaps we can lobby all religious groups and other 'interested parties' with a copy of good articles about why RE is important and a list of contacts to write or email to.

    We really must win this one.
     
  7. Sounds like a plan, as part of the Government's fundamental goal is community cohesion and that is one of the topics covered by RE and is in essence the whole of RE which in my mind encourages pupils to Respect Eveeryone.
    In our multicultural, multifaith society it is imperative that all children are taught about other faiths and cultures and challenged on their often media fuelled prejudices and misunderstandings. To not include RE will again marginalise the subject and the children will, as they do now, see it, and other subjects not included as second class subjects. In the very areas the Government keeps saying it is so worried about, the children and parents will see only those included in the Baccalaureate as valuable, as they do now with English, Maths and Science.
     
  8. poppy2004

    poppy2004 New commenter

    <u>Response 3:</u>
    We have introduced the English Baccalaureate because we are concerned that the number of pupils who currently receive a broad education in core academic subjects is far too small. This is particularly the case for pupils in disadvantaged areas. The English Baccalaureate is designed to recognise the success of those students who attain GCSEs or iGCSEs at grade A*-C across a core of academic subjects. We want to encourage more pupils to study these core subjects and to open up opportunities for all students to have the chance to study them regardless of the school they attend. We will give special recognition in the performance tables to those schools which are helping their pupils attain this breadth and we will mark individual pupils&rsquo; achievements through a certificate.
    Whilst the English Baccalaureate will give pupils the opportunity to study a core of academic subjects, it does not mean that we wish to restrict their choices or opportunities for wider study which is why the number of core subjects is small enough to allow for that. Study in other subjects will be just as valuable to pupils and we will encourage all pupils to study non-English Baccalaureate subjects alongside the core English Baccalaureate in order to benefit from a well rounded education.
    We recognise, as many schools do, the benefits that religious education can bring to pupils. This is why the teaching of RE remains compulsory throughout a pupil's schooling. Success in all subjects studied at GCSE will also continue to be recognised by other performance table measures, as it has in the past.
    We have not included RE as fulfilling the humanity requirement of the English Baccalaureate because it is already a compulsory subject. One of the intentions of the English Baccalaureate is to encourage wider take up of geography and history in addition to, rather than instead of, compulsory religious education.
     
  9. pete14

    pete14 New commenter

    Responses seem to be the same copy and paste job (I got one this morning). I suppose it would be unreasonable to expect them to actually respond to different arguments individuals have raised.
    It appears as though the justification for leaving RS out of the English Baccalaureate is that RS is a compulsory subject in the curriculum (as are English, Maths and Science). Just goes to show how out of touch DFE are. Compulsory; yes, provision enforced; no.
    Perhaps follow up emails should make this point along with others individuals feel are needed.
     
  10. deut

    deut New commenter

    Thanks Pete,
    I too have had an identical reply but I am cheered that it says very clearly that RS is to remain compulsory for all students and that the reason it is not part of the proposed E- Bac is that students already study it. The proposal is to encourage uptake of other Humanities subjects (in addition to and not instead of RS).
    I hope that Michael Gove will be reluctant to change the legal requirements for the delivery of RS. It is important that Head teachers recognise this requirement as more community schools go down the academy route.
     
  11. andrew07

    andrew07 Occasional commenter

    Actually, like I've said before, Michael Gove is in favour of RE. He had positive things to say about it at interviews and is in favour of faith based schools. I can't see him NOT in favour of RS and wanting to change the requirements.
     
  12. louise28k

    louise28k New commenter

    Where can I email about this matter? I too want to get involved in this.

    Thanks

     
  13. Have had response from my local MP (Labour) - she agrees with us and is going to contact the school's secretary about it and then let me know the reply.
    S
     
  14. I am concerned as Mr Gove does appear to think that RE is history - which is not the same thing at all!!

    We must be aware that there is a danger that RE will get less curric time .....financing....etc if ti does not appear in the Ebacc - because schools leaders will have to go where the money is !!!

    This is going to be a tough fight, for the best subject of all !!!!!

    Mr Gove needs to put his money where his mouth is ! If in favour of RE it should be in the Ebacc - I doubt whether he is in favour really.

    There have been too many inititaives too quickly - they may not be best thought out.
     
  15. "Thank you for your message regarding the levels of Religious Education taught in schools across Britain. It is fantastic to see that people, such as yourself, are enthused with such matters.
    You raise some very interesting points about the importance of being taught Religious Education. I agree with you that if young people leave school with an understanding of the different religions that people in Britain practise then this will lead to a more cohesive and tolerant society.
    I thank you again for your message."
     
  16. hwh

    hwh

    Reply from emails i sent to Mr Gove. Again making the point that it is a compulsory subject. That it is but it is not compulsory for students to take a GCSE in it - that is optional - same as all the other subjects.
    Reply:
    Thank you for your recent email.
    We have introduced the English Baccalaureate because we are concerned that the number of pupils who currently receive a broad education in core academic subjects is far too small. This is particularly the case for pupils in disadvantaged areas. The English Baccalaureate is designed to recognise the success of those students who attain GCSEs or iGCSEs at grade A*-C across a core of academic subjects. We want to encourage more pupils to study these core subjects and to open up opportunities for all students to have the chance to study them regardless of the school they attend. We will give special recognition in the performance tables to those schools which are helping their pupils attain this breadth and we will mark individual pupils&rsquo; achievements through a certificate.
    Whilst the English Baccalaureate will give pupils the opportunity to study a core of academic subjects, it does not mean that we wish to restrict their choices or opportunities for wider study which is why the number of core subjects is small enough to allow for that. Study in other subjects will be just as valuable to pupils and we will encourage all pupils to study non-English Baccalaureate subjects alongside the core English Baccalaureate in order to benefit from a well rounded education.
    We recognise, as many schools do, the benefits that religious education (RE) can bring to pupils. This is why the teaching of RE remains compulsory throughout a pupil's schooling. Success in all subjects studied at GCSE will also continue to be recognised by other performance table measures, as it has in the past.
    We have not included RE as fulfilling the humanity requirement of the English Baccalaureate because it is already a compulsory subject. One of the intentions of the English Baccalaureate is to encourage wider take up of geography and history in addition to, rather than instead of, compulsory RE.



     
  17. pete14

    pete14 New commenter

    The reply that has been posted on here a few times is the one I received to my initial comments. It is also the reply to the follow up email I sent making some specific points relating to the fact that even though RE is compulsory, in reality this is not enforced. It seems that as soon as they realise it is about RE, they press the reply button without even bothering to read any further. My follow up response didn't even reach the person it was intended for.
    Why do we bother?
     
  18. I and my collegues also had the same response as that in post 16. It does not really make sense, and we will be sending a response to it.
    One argument for not including RS is that it is already compulsory however RS will not be compulsory in Academies, and (whether we like it or not) most schools are eventually going to pushed to be Academies.
    Therefore RS will not be compulsory, and if it is not in the EBacc there will be no league table benefit to delivering it. Schools may well then have 'options' blocks where pupils have to do Eng, Maths, Science, Lang and then either Hist or Geog, and RS will be missing.
    This is non-sensical given that all 3 are Humanities subjects with many shared skill-sets.
    It also seems daft given that we are also one of the subjects that the Russell group universities value, and that therefore they at least see us as a valid and academically challenging subject.
    In addition English, Math and Science whilst not compulsory are all but compulsory (it would be a very silly school which did not teach them!) and therefore do not need 'further protection' and they are included in the EBacc.
    Several holes in the logic of the response given I feel, which need to be pointed out at least.
     
  19. I agree with all the above and it is vital that we keep up the letters and e mails.
    I just heard of a school where the Head supported the Head of RE and e mailed all parents (It may have just been all parents whose children do GCSE or A level RE) to ask them to e mail / write to Gove and Gibb and the MP to include RE as a Humanity, explaining the issues as above. For instance, every university prospectus / department in teh country lists RE as one of the Humanities - including Oxford (where Gove studied)!
    AND
    The same Head of RE explained the issue to students and then asked them if they wanted to e mail Gove and Gibb from teh school computers, booked for the next lesson.
    WE SHOULD ALL DO THAT
    I wondered if this lobbying was right and then decided that I have yet to find ANYONE who thinks that Hunanities should be defined in a way that excludes RE so we owe it to future students to campaign hard and positive. I think Gove said that the 'definition of humanities and languages' may yet be reviewed but the categories would stay. That allows a way in for RE that isn't totally a 'u turn'.
    I think there is a bit of a subtext that RE may be seen as less academic and rigorous than History and Geography. Where schools have a Humanities column for options, do they direct less able students to History or RE? Maybe it depends on the school.
    Please keep spreading the word and get parents and students and Heads and colleagues to write - contact everyone in partner schools. This can still be changed but the door of opportunity to do so may well close without any warning. The 'standard response' e mail (as in post 16 above) shows how it could be easy for Gove et al to just become deaf and entrenched.


     
  20. believe81

    believe81 New commenter

    Hi,
    This evening in a meeting with SMT, I have just been informed that is likely RE would definitely not be part of the Ebac. Has anybody heard similar? I have looked at NATRE and can't find anything.
    It is now being discussed, whether we continue to have a short course GCSE offered.
    Thanks.
     

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