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Thousands of parents to take children out of school in protest over 'stressful' exams

Discussion in 'Education news' started by FrankWolley, Apr 29, 2016.

  1. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    It was never broken down year by year, just by key stage. So it was still possible to move schools 4 times during KS2 and do the Greeks every year.
  2. hammie

    hammie Lead commenter

    the national curriculum was always intended as a simple overview to ensure all children covered broadly the same core skills at about the same time. Then the vested interests got hold of it and turned it into the bloated over tested monster that it is today.
    A freedom of information request to ask the education department to total up the cost of all the printed versions of the NC would be something to keep the ministry busy for several years. Probably total up to the gross national product of several small countries.
    Geoff Thomas, wanet and guinnesspuss like this.
  3. ankitjainin

    ankitjainin New commenter

    Education is not art to read books and mug them whole day in school as well as in home. Education is beautiful concept, which include everything - Education means to make you good person in your life, and school is fully responsible for it.
    Giving heavy bags to small kids, is not the education, reduce heavy bags, improve mental ability, make school education healthy and fit, by providing knowledge which is stressful.
    guinnesspuss likes this.
  4. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    I have not given that as a reason. Join the conversation anytime.
  5. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    When it's orchestrated by the teacher or the school responsible for teaching that content then there are no other reasons worth considering.
  6. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    I'm making neither assumption; you seem determined to misrepresent my arguments as arbitrary generalities for which there is no evidence. In fact, as I keep pointing out, I'm am not attacking the entire college of Primary teachers. nor your execution of your previous role. I'm saying that via the evidence of cheating in SATs by Primary teachers, some Primary teachers will cheat. I'm saying that some will cheat to cover up their failure to teach to the National Curriculum, to which the last few weeks of Primaries' panicky cramming and 'mocks SATs' testify, not forgetting the unseemly and unevidenced weaponsing of child stress.

    Call it what it is - cramming. No, it's not productive deep learning but it's not a necessary artefact of SATs. Primary teachers have years to teach this stuff - cramming it all into a few weeks and hoping it will stick is not only stupid but also harmful to children. Yes, the children are pawns but not of SATs. They are the pawns of bad teachers who aren't up to the job and who have no place in the profession. I know that there are Primary teachers who are appalled at their colleagues who inflict this unnecessary cramming on children and any stress which follows yet as you have not been prepared to admit that there are Primary teachers who qualify for my reasonable criticisms then I do not expect you to condemn this cruel cramming.
  7. gomezla

    gomezla New commenter

    According to Kate Ivens (from the Campaign for Real Education), speaking on the BBC News at Ten (03/05/2016), children "need the basics of literacy, grammar, mastery of their language... Now to ensure that they are taught that way they need to be tested and this gives the evidence of whether the teachers have actually taught them these things."

    What an insult to teachers. 1. This statement shows a complete lack of trust in the profession. 2. This statement would suggest that the children are being tested not for their own benefit but as a means of checking up on teachers. 3. This statement fails to recognise that children are human: a teacher may well teach all the requirements of a syllabus but that does not necessarily mean that they will retain the information to regurgitate in a test.
    Shedman and guinnesspuss like this.
  8. JosieWhitehead

    JosieWhitehead Star commenter

    Oh yes, Chelsea, you are quite right. I do know that of course. When a parent now moves a child from one part of the country to the other, they should be quite sure that what they are learning in their classroom continues from the class in the area which they've left. Going back to pre-National Curriculum, children were moving to secondary schools and being put in the bottom classes not because of their ability or intelligence, but because they just hadn't been taught certain things in primary schools. But I feel that things may have gone too far. I don't know.
  9. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    (my bold)

    OK - my last comment on this, because it's clear we will never come to a meeting point on this.
    From your quote above, you ARE making the assumption that some teachers cheat because they haven't taught the NC. This is your assumption. You have presented no evidence that the NC is not taught in primary schools. In fact, as has been pointed out, the level of oversight & monitoring of what is taught in schools today (OFsted, learning walks, lesson observations, book scrutinies, plan scrutinies - even CCTV) means it is almost impossible for any teacher to fail to teach the NC and get away with it. And why would they not teach the NC, given a pay rise, let alone their job, depends on children acheivng their (often impossible) targets in tests based on the NC?

    Please provide evidence for your assertion 'some will cheat to cover up their failure to teach to the National Curriculum'.
    guinnesspuss likes this.
  10. Shedman

    Shedman Star commenter

    I remember the shelf full of lovely folders that came out for the National Curriculum - one for every subject and all colour coded. Has anybody still got a set? They might be worth a bob or two now.
    guinnesspuss likes this.
  11. Benbamboo

    Benbamboo Occasional commenter

    1) Pressure to increase pass levels to ensure a pay rise/stay out of capability
    2) Opportunity to look good to enhance further careers paths
    3) Sheer stupidity

    There's three reasons other than not teaching the content. Personally, if I heard of someone cheating in a test I would assume it is the first reason I've listed.

    Edit: worth me pointing out that I'm not making excuses for any teacher who cheats in a test, they let us all down, but not teaching content is, in my view, unlikely to be the reason.
    Flere-Imsaho and chelsea2 like this.
  12. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    Sadly, I have! However, I removed them from the ring-binders and filed them in one or two folders, so i could re-use the ring-binders. However, as clearing out all my teaching resources is on my retirement list of 'Boring But Necessary Things To Do Which Get In The Way Of Enjoying Myself', they'll soon be in Recycling Heaven.
  13. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    I wrote:
    How the tests will then be used to show - or not - that teachers are teaching what they should be teaching (Vince's reason for having them), is still not being explained.

    The important bit again:

    but by ensuring that teachers are teaching what is required of them by their contracts and by their employers, the taxpayers
  14. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Compare and contrast (my emphases):

    Your attempt to replace my intransitive expression 'in ensuring' with your transitive expression 'to show' and so change my meaning, fails.


    You done yet?
  15. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter


    So the tests are to ensure that teachers teach the right stuff?
  16. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

  17. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Surely not!
  18. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    'Some' - yes. You got there. You admit now that I'm not criticising all Primary teachers. Well done. Only a little further now, but if you aren't going to reply now that you've begun to acknowledge what I'm saying and can't bring yourself to agree with my justified and limited claims then that's your choice. I've bowed out of discussions before now when they have become unbearably forensic but here I'm consistently making the same very simple points which a person of significant Primary experience could not reasonably dispute, which brings me to your charge of assumption.

    Inferring rationally from readily available evidence is not assumption. There are ample recent items in the news which report blatant SATs cheating by Primary teachers and schools, and even some reports on this board. Given that in every other sphere of life people cheat because of what may be broadly termed their incompetence then we can fairly infer that's going to be a factor here too.

    Think it through: If all Primary students were being taught the National Curriculum through to the end of Year 6 in a competent and timely manner then there would be no need for the mad panicky cramming weeks we now see - determined cheaters wouldn't bother putting children through this, knowing that their cheating would achieve their desired outcomes - nor would most Secondary teachers have little confidence in the Year 6 assessments they receive from Primaries. An honest Primary teacher would admit to these issues, that their college is not perfect, as I have admitted of Secondary.

    Your alternative explanation for the small proportion of all Primary teachers who cheat, that they do so for purely cynical reasons, is no small admission even if you didn't intend it, but these Machiavels will be rare. The overwhelming majority of people who cheat at anything do so not because they are greedy schemers but because they either haven't got the skills or they haven't done the work or can't do the work, although they share the quality of dishonesty. It's that simple.

    Most Primary teachers are brilliant, and you've seen me praise their mathematical teaching before now, but face it - there are some Primary teachers and some Primary schools who just don't get the job done. They all say they teach the content but some don't get it done in a competent or a timely manner because they're too busy farting about with fads and bad practices like PBL, EBL, Growth Mindset, moronic 'literacy policies' & 'calculation policies' designed to save teachers the trouble of actually reading the National Curriculum, and whatever groovy idea they happen to have picked up from Twitter the previous weekend. Speaking of PBL and EBL, I don't believe that you 'have no idea what they mean' unless you've been out of circulation for the past sixty years; as an ex-Primary teacher you've certainly encountered these ideas before now in theory or practice even if by some miracle of circumstance you haven't implemented them yourself.
  19. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Yet there is the question of why - barring pathological dishonesty and greed - they would feel the need to cheat if they were confident that they had taught the content satisfactorily.

    Yes, they do. I did not assume you were making excuses but given one or two people around here barking their cynicism I can see how it might feel necessary.
  20. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    I know a man of your intelligence can come up with several reasons in pretty short order

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