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Thomas Cook Collapses

Discussion in 'Personal' started by peakster, Sep 23, 2019.

  1. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    Such a shame - we had several really nice holidays with them over the years.

    Yet another indication of the slow disintegration of the UK.
     
    JL48 likes this.
  2. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    Don't worry - we'll all be living in Australia soon. Apparently . . .
     
  3. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Lead commenter

    Another example of privatisation not working?
     
  4. phlogiston

    phlogiston Star commenter

    Why politicise something that's down to market forces?
    You know as well as I that Thomas Cook has been a private enterprise for the best part of 200 years. I'm guessing their demise is down to things like Trivago.
    I feel concern for:
    All the people whose livelihood has been taken away.
    The people stranded abroad who may not get home in time to fulfil other commitments.
    The people who have paid up front for their holidays and won't get them
    The hoteliers who won't get their money.
    The people held hostage by these hoteliers.
     
  5. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Never used them.
     
    border_walker likes this.
  6. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Lead commenter

    It was nationalised in 1948 and privatised in 1972.
     
    artboyusa and emerald52 like this.
  7. moscowbore

    moscowbore Senior commenter

    A good point was made on the BBC. It will cost more to repatriate all of the holidaymakers than it would to give 200M to keep the company afloat.
     
    JL48, emerald52 and TCSC47 like this.
  8. minnie me

    minnie me Star commenter

    There are 2 TC shops within walking distance of our house . Sorry for the staff and yet another ‘ to let ‘ sign in our village ( along with a former bakery / three banks and a nail technician ) ...
     
    smoothnewt likes this.
  9. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    We went with TC to Tenerife some years ago - our daughter was about 6 and it was the first package holiday we ever did as a family. We had a great week.

    Not only will it cost millions to bring people home - what about all the other costs.
     
  10. schoolsout4summer

    schoolsout4summer Star commenter

    Companies come and companies go. It is the natural order of things. Thomas Cook has debts of 1.7 BILLION pounds! Not the Government's role to save them. ATOL insurance will help repatriate some. Others will have to cover the cost themselves. That is the risk you take.
    The free market rules.
     
  11. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Lead commenter

    The company needed £1.1billion and was £200 million short. The cost of repatriation is estimated at £100 million circa £650 per head.
     
    nomad likes this.
  12. TCSC47

    TCSC47 Star commenter

    And the jobs of the staff would be saved. Such an action is the involvement of government in businesses that I would want. I don't want 100% socialism but I do want a government that would involve itself in smoothing out the changes that occur in the economics of our society. From Thatcher to today the Tory party has moved ever closer to the market must rule alone. Much to the detriment of us all.

    Classic examples - Thatcher caused the demise of many of our industries by refusing to support them financially in the 80's when economics were difficult. Not so, many other countries. So nowadays we buy our trains from Italy. We led the world with the development of nuclear power but now our nuclear power stations are run from France. Our car building industry was as good as anybody in the world. Where is it now? Just to name a few off the top of my head.
     
    T34 and Nanook_rubs_it like this.
  13. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Lead commenter

    upload_2019-9-23_10-10-46.png

    600million/150,000=£4,000 per person!!! Check the sums again.
    £200 miill to a company that reported a £1.5 billion loss this year and has been bailed twice since 2011.
    Why divert money from essential public sector spendng to bail a terrible company?

    I wouldn't mind so much if she wasn't Shad Bus Sec.
     
    artboyusa, jenny_talwarts and nomad like this.
  14. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Since summer 2016, Thomas Cook Airlines UK has been operating 33 planes. These include 24 new Airbus A321s, seven A330-200s and two Boeing 757-200s.I

    I would imagine that sale of these assets will offset a lot of the debt. Assuming, of course, that there are buyers.

    Peter Fankhauser, the chief executive, took home £8.3 million since he took over in 2014, including a £2.9m bonus in 2015. Quite an insult to those Thomas Cook employees now without a job!
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
  15. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    Do they own the planes or are they leased? If owned are they owned outright or are there outstanding loans to pay off?
     
  16. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Star commenter

    Except for the time when they were publicly owned as part of British Railways.
     
  17. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    The company's fleet of 103 jets is a mix of planes it owns and leases.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47155137

    I believe the ones I noted earlier are those it owns outright.
     
  18. Skeoch

    Skeoch Lead commenter

    This failure was long forecast: perhaps the forecasts became self-fulfilling. It's clear the company isn't solvent and even with a big cash injection all that would be achieved is a postponement of failure. From my reading of this:
    1. Buying up other companies in an effort to expand soaked up money
    2. Much purchasing is done in advance, by holidaymakers and by the travel companies; but the company pays in arrears. The fall in value of the £ will have had a major impact here, and perhaps the company didn't hedge well enough in buying euros and dollars in advance.
    3. The business has narrow margins and is therefore particularly vulnerable.
    4. The company concentrated on packages and on high street sales; both are rapidly going out of fashion as people buy online and make their own packages. The competition is not just Jet2 or whoever, it's also AirBNB, EasyJet, RyanAir, Hotels.com and the like. So this part of the travel industry is in systemic decline. Either Thomas Cook needed to realign itself or it was on its way out in the long run.
    5. Many of the aircraft don't represent assets as they are leased. Worse for the clear-up it's illegal to operate aircraft from an insolvent company - there are moves to change this law, as some European countries have, which would have made the aircraft and crews available for the clear-up and would have paid the crews for a bit longer.
    6. The repatriation of package holiday customers isn't a charge on the taxpayer - the ATOL system is a levy on packages which in turn pays for this sort of thing. It should also pay hotels, but it's unsurprising that some hotels don't know this.
    7. Non-package customers aren't protected that way. They should have their own insurance (and I don't have much sympathy if they don't - in our recent booking the operator has repeatedly checked that we have insurance, states it clearly that it's a condition of carriage (and tries to sell their own policy, of course!). Getting money back from a credit card company is possible but takes time.
     
    oldsomeman and lanokia like this.
  19. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    It's a shame to see another well known name disappear.
     
  20. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    The trouble is, the £200 million would have probably disappeared in the same way that the £200 million bank bailout out of Thomas Cook in 2011 disappeared. Basically, the business model of selling package deals through catalogues had become redundant.
     

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