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The universal church of Christ.

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Mathsteach2, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. Mathsteach2

    Mathsteach2 Established commenter

    This is another thread really only for Christians, but since I have opened it here I look forward to reading posts from anyone else. In that way I learn more, and it makes the conversation more lively.
    I picked up the phrase " the universal church of Christ" from a Seventh Day Adventist Quarterly where they clearly declared that they were not the universal church of Christ.
    I therefore thought why should we join any established and institutional Church? One Adventist who came to my bedside in hospital said it was for fellowship, and I answered that I was getting more fellowship on the ward and on the Internet than I ever did by attending Church.
    I am interested in Christian Anarchy but would never claim to be one. Attach a label and we could easily become institutionalised.
     
  2. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    Seventh-day Adventist are certainly not Christians in the sense the New Testament declares...but most folks think they are. They are similar in style to Jehovah's witness, denying the glory of God. Jesus, as mentioned by the early church fathers is not their version as it was reinvented or recast in a different light. The church universal is those of a fellowship owing allegiance to the message and teaching of Christ and the need to believe and trust in Jesus as saviour, to belong to the fellowship.
    I have not heard of Christian anarchy before. One assumes its a disruptive force whose intent is to disprove or disestablish the 'norms''of Christian belief in favour of their own interpretation.
    If you are really interested in the Early Christian churches teaching I recommend Eusebius 2 volume set on the Early Church. it deals with many of the heresies and misunderstood teaching in the Early church and how the councils of the church made decisions as to what to admit and keep. It's interesting that many of the heresies it condemned have returned in the teaching of 'new' versions of so-called Christian groups.
     
  3. Mathsteach2

    Mathsteach2 Established commenter

    Many thanks for your post, oldsomeman, I do not think I will attempt to read about the early church now at my age. I was aware of how many early heresies are creeping back, by witnessing young SDA members repeating the same old arguments. I guess that they too had not read Eusebius.
    My wife and myself left the SDA Church because we experienced no fellowship, were uncomfortable with some of their doctrines, and do not agree with tithing when the pastors
     
  4. Mathsteach2

    Mathsteach2 Established commenter

    To continue (I nearly lost my complete post):
    when the pastors earn big salaries and fly first class.
    I have been an armchair anarchist since becoming a teacher, of the Paul Feyerabend variety. Now as I try to become a Christian I find there is considerable support for anarchy in the Bible. 1 Samuel 8 is good.
     
  5. Mathsteach2

    Mathsteach2 Established commenter

    To continue (I nearly lost my complete post):
    when the pastors earn big salaries and fly first class.
    I have been an armchair anarchist since becoming a teacher, of the Paul Feyerabend variety. Now as I try to become a Christian I find there is considerable support for anarchy in the Bible. 1 Samuel 8 is good.
     
  6. Mathsteach2

    Mathsteach2 Established commenter

    And now it has been posted twice! Perhaps the moderators can sort it out.
     
  7. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Lead commenter

    Mathsteach2: 'I do not think I will attempt to read about the early church now at my age.'

    DR. CHASUBLE: The precept as well as the practice of the Primitive Church was distinctly against matrimony.

    MISS PRISM:: That is obviously the reason why the Primitive Church has not lasted up to the present day.

    Spot on as always, Oscar.
     
  8. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    You are developing a healthy scepticism.
     
  9. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    @Mathsteach2 you obviously don't understand how much a private jet apparently enables pastors to spread 'the word'.

    'If Jesus were alive to day, he wouldn't be riding a donkey, but preaching from an executive jet!'.

     
    EmanuelShadrack likes this.
  10. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    I'm tempted to spell out a number of issues of logic in your post but worry that in response you would just tell me how nice I am.
     
    oldsomeman likes this.
  11. Mathsteach2

    Mathsteach2 Established commenter

    I guess you mean logical inconsistencies, sbkrobson, in which I would be very interested. If you describe them tactfully I see nothing to be concerned about by being considered "nice". Please fire ahead.
    Nanook_rubs_it, I guess you are not anarchistically inclined? The divide between the rich and the poor gets ever greater which ultimately will lead to civil unrest, revolution and war. Fortunately I am on my way out anyway, like the elderly couple in the film "Titanic" who stayed in bed until the waters came in, whilst everyone else was rushing around on deck.
     
  12. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    I dunno, British Leyland was good enough for Moses, when he "came down the mountain in his Triumph".
     
  13. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    Mathsteach if you are not willing to learn how and why terminology is used you are doing yourself no favours.
    It strikes me you want there be an easy relaxing way of believing. The reality, even as you found out as an SDA, there is no easy way.
    Jesus called his disciples to take up their cross and follow him. Disciples are called to love and care and even share. Christianity is not just a label you wear and then have "I'm all right Jack' attitude.
    It's really hard graft to live a holy life and obey the teachings of Christ. I know I devoted some 30 years of my life seeking to follow and obey.'even preparing for 2 years in Bible College to go out as a missionary . I never managed to fully live up to the demands of discipleship, but I did obey my 'calling' to go and teach insomuch as I trained up to be one...2 years of night school to gain exams.3 years to take teacher training and then 5 years of open university to gain my honours degree. All for what .to take up a cross and obey and follow.
    So please do not expect me, in particular, to be soft if all you seek is platitudes....I have been there, worn the t-shirt and followed...not out of gaining rewards, but rather out of love and adoration at the time.
     
  14. Geoff Thomas

    Geoff Thomas Star commenter

    And throughout the time of the Christian church, there have been (groups of) people who have tried to do this, only to be pursued as heretics by the organised church.
     
  15. Mathsteach2

    Mathsteach2 Established commenter

    oldsomeman, I do not know to which terminology you are referring. If I was on my own I would sell everything and follow Jesus, in the same way the early Christians did (Acts 4:32-37). They were very anarchical. I am surprised you have not heard of Christian Anarchy. Political anarchism is an optional module in some A level political science courses and Christian Anarchy is treated well in Wiki.
    However I have my wife to consider, and together we both like our creature comforts. When we cannot afford something we go without, saying God will provide.
    Geoff Thomas is correct, it is the organised Churches which are responsible for man's inhumanity to man.
     
  16. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    Yeap...there are always those who do not recognise the hierarchy of the church....Thankfully some did, such as Luther and John Wesley! End the holy hermits who lived on tall pillars in ancient times have to be admired for being different.
     
  17. Mathsteach2

    Mathsteach2 Established commenter

    I am lost, oldsomeman, you seem to be contradicting yourself. Geoff Thomas criticises church heirarchy for being responsible for the persecution of people perceived as heretics, but you seem to be applauding them. Did Luther etc. lead a humble life like Jesus, the hermits whom you cite, and Tolstoy etc.?
     
  18. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Nothing humble about Tolstoy.
     
  19. Mathsteach2

    Mathsteach2 Established commenter

    I was thinking of Tolstoy's renunciation of his aristocratic lifestyle after his religious conversion, racroesus. I think that was very humbling for him. How humble a lifestyle did Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa and Dorothy Day lead? I would like to think very humble, like Jesus.
     
  20. Geoff Thomas

    Geoff Thomas Star commenter

    I would certainly remove Mother Theresa from that list. Nothing humble about her.
     
    vannie, Jamvic and EmanuelShadrack like this.

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