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The State of the Union: Hidden Tribes report

Discussion in 'Personal' started by lanokia, Oct 13, 2018.

  1. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

  2. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    I think what interested me is that the "Progressive activists" and "devoted conservatives" come across the loudest and do most of the steering of the conversation... while constituting such a clear minority.
    mothorchid likes this.
  3. kibosh

    kibosh Star commenter

    Is this because they have the most to fear from each other when compared to other groups?
  4. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter


    Or possibly the greatest desire to control the actions of others.
    kibosh likes this.
  5. kibosh

    kibosh Star commenter

    You've read the report; what's the biggest difference between the devoted and traditional conservatives. Is it a new money/old money thing?
  6. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    This is how they define them on page 9
    kibosh likes this.
  7. kibosh

    kibosh Star commenter

    Religion. There's a surprise :rolleyes:

    It has the makings, lan, of an interesting discussion (wonders if parallels can be drawn to similar tribal groupings in the UK?) but you know me . . . I didn't want to see your OP drop off the page without so much as one response, but I'm not nearly well informed enough to engage fully.
  8. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Religion does seem to drive people towards a more conservative position... which is interesting...

    Though by my personal reckoning much of the present progressive/conservative dispute seems to spin out of the Atheist discussions of the last decade... the movement that began with Dawkins and his The God Delusion seems to have spun into something complete unpredictable... but others trace it to GamerGate and yet others to the Occupy movements of 2008-10.

    And please, carry on... it might be others are reading the report but I doubt many will want to consume a 160 pages [though it does have lots of easily digested graphs]
  9. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    Not so sure about that - would be interesting to explore.

    As usual, I can only speak with any real knowledge about Methodism, but our roots are in social justice. From the beginning we spoke out for and worked for (and with) the poor and disenfranchised - despite huge opposition from the Establishment of the day. NCH (now Action for Children) for example, was begun by a Methodist minister. Even today, social justice is in our DNA. It doesn't mean we don't things wrong at times - it's taking us too long to get round to allowing gays to marry in our churches, for example - but I can't think of one Methodist whom I know whose politics lean to the right of centre.

    Methodists (despite official disapproval) were active and radical in the early Trade Union movement; they were hugely and actively supportive of the 1832 Reform Bill, and later for factory reform. 6 of the 7 Tolpuddle Martyrs were Methodist. (Worth a read: https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/anvil/14-1_036.pdf)

    Keir Hardie, the first Labour Party leader was a Methodist local preacher. Harold Wilson said that the Labour Party owed more to Methodism than Marx! And William Beveridge was instrumental in the establishing of the NHS. More recently, Michael Foot was an ardent Methodist.

    I'm not sure any of these could be described as conservative, even with a small c!
    Nanook_rubs_it and lanokia like this.
  10. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Well said... and as you say interesting to explore...

    I meant in general, not in a majority sense... just that the more religious a society is ... openly is... whether Islamic, Christian, Hindu, Jewish... the more conservative that society appears to be... I fully accept there will be religious folks who migrate towards the progressive spectrum.

    However, my view on the present progressive/conservative divide is it did spin out of the New Atheist movement of the 2000s and that as a result, faith does play a role in which side of the divide people come down on. Not that this is some cast iron, rock solid rule mind you... just my observation.
    chelsea2 likes this.
  11. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    Cant remember where I first read it, but I associate the roots of the Labour Party were from the Methodist church.

    Scotland traces the considerable religious impact upon the emerging Labour movement in the nineteenth Century, in particular that of varieties of Methodism. He charts its influence not only in reforming legislation and the formation of political parties, culminating in the foundation of the Labour Party in 1906, but also in other organisations and movements like Trades Unions, Chartists and the Co-operative Movement. Moreover, Methodist principles of organisation and mobilisation had a significant part to play in the success of these growing movements.

    chelsea2 likes this.
  12. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

  13. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    I think it goes back a lot further than that from when US politics took a decidedly religious turn in the 50’s as a response to communism. The blurring of the ‘church & state’ by both GOP & Democrat politicians brought out secular activists such as Madalyn O’Hair who started by taking her childrens’ school districts to court for introducing religion into their school, which is unconstitutional.

    AFAIAA it became more a GOP thing with Gerry Falwell, an evangelical preacher in the 1970’s/80’s, who preached a particularly hard line segregational, anti- gay interpretation of the bible, getting particularly political that resulted in Regan.
  14. nizebaby

    nizebaby Star commenter

    Will I be villified if I say that I'm bored with american politics?
  15. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

  16. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    No racial sub-tribes?
  17. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Those aren't really ''Hidden''.
  18. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Aren't they hidden within the tribes?
  19. Geoff Thomas

    Geoff Thomas Star commenter

    Probably puts you in the largest single group in the chart.
  20. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Well I'd hazard a guess [based on stereotyping] that Black Americans would veer more towards the left of the chart in post #1 [looking at the vitriol aimed towards Kanye] while Latino/Hispanic would veer more right being more religious [but not going into ''Devoted'' because of the migration issue.

    Meanwhile Asian-Americans would also veer towards the right of the chart due to cultural ethics towards work and education.

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