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The problem with teaching...........

Discussion in 'Personal' started by BelleDuJour, Oct 19, 2017.

  1. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    I agree whole-heartedly with this, but then we remember what I do believe was indeed a 'golden age' of teaching.:D
    thistledoo likes this.
  2. foxtail3

    foxtail3 Star commenter

    I can't agree with you @needabreak. I think there should be opportunities for all, but that doesn't have to mean university. Particularly not when the degree courses are of no benefit to a future potential career.

    There must be significant numbers of students who would be suited to a practical course, at some establishment. But it doesn't have to be a university.
  3. smoothnewt

    smoothnewt Lead commenter

    thistledoo and Lara mfl 05 like this.
  4. ilovesooty

    ilovesooty Lead commenter

    I have to meet targets in my job and that's the norm everywhere. My targets are also dependent on the engagement of service users.
    The difference is that I work in an environment where it's accepted that if I've tried my best it's not assumed that failure is always my fault. I'm trusted to organise my workload and interventions and not treated like a naughty child.
  5. theworm123

    theworm123 Lead commenter

    I teach in a post-1992 and i assure you that you are right, the young people who graduate are better prepared than graduates from a red brick in my opinion, because they are taught by people who came back to academia from industry.

    We did a visit to a year 11 cohort in a school this morning, unfortunately they couldn't have given 2 flying f-ucks about what we had to say.
    thistledoo and needabreak like this.
  6. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    No I caught up myself while still at school but as I said practically self taught at A'level... then went on to uni in the normal way. I came into teaching much later after working in various industries, I would however hate to think that as a result of that or resits or lower grades that I could have been robbed of a career it turned out I was and am very good at and the benefit that gave/gives the hundreds of students I have taught over the years who at level 3 (whichever course) left to go to the uni of their choice or a job that they were infinitely better prepared for than had they not undertaken the course.

  7. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    I think education should be for all and all should have a shot at every level if they get in they get in if not they don't.
  8. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    Are you able to explain exactly why you think this?

    The reason behind my asking is that I wasn't impressed with what passed for the further education I had. I learnt and retained a million times more from the challenges of work than ever I could have picked up in formulaic formal education.

    Real life problems to solve provided for me a far richer environment for the desire to learn than ever a formal learning environment could. In later life, I've been able to enjoy a far better education after I discovered and became addicted to the wireless.

    There's some really interesting stuff on it for those who have the time and patience to search for it. One programme I particularly enjoyed concerned a world-leading entomologist who as a child, found school dull. He spent all his free time studying what insects got up to instead of wasting his life doing the pointless homework his teachers prescribed.

    I fully accept that education should be available for all, but I don't accept that it needs to be solely in the manner it gets conducted these days. The vast majority of people who changed the world for the better, did so having left school at a early age without having their education tainted by what educators thought they should study.

    By the way, has anyone any knowledge of how Eureka is doing these days? I haven't seen his contributions on here for quite some time.
  9. george1963

    george1963 Occasional commenter

    Thank you Belle for putting into words what I felt in my heart.
  10. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    I've posted this cartoon before (twice!), but it seems to go so well with this thread, and maybe one or two readers won't have seen it!

  11. Jolly_Roger1

    Jolly_Roger1 Star commenter

    I started my teaching career thinking of myself as a professional, in that I was trusted to do a professional job and given the latitude of do it in my own way. Then, it was the outcome that was important, not so much the process. By the end of my career, I did not think of myself as a professional as I felt profoundly distrusted, by my managers and everyone else. I felt about as trusted as the inmate of high security prison who has wandered too near the wall of the exercise yard. In addition, I felt as trusted to impart knowledge as someone who pushing leaflets advertising pizza through letter boxes.
  12. BelleDuJour

    BelleDuJour Star commenter

    It's all data, data, data.
    At the start of my career professional judgement was valued. Not any more.
    And we are trying to measure what cannot be measured..............it's not like fattening a pig where you can accurately measure what goes in and what you end up with.
    I think I'd rather do a zero hours contract at John Lewis and have a life! (and discounted wine!).
    So glad I am not alone in this but what (if anything?) can we do?
    thistledoo, Shedman, Alice K and 3 others like this.
  13. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    This was the very reason why, at 17 when my son decided he didn't ant to go to University, despite heavy pressure being put on him to do so - Physics graduates would be headhunted he was told! He wasn't at all sure he wanted to pursue Physics and I encouraged him not to apply to Uni and supported him 'fight' the school pressure. I told him nowadays he could go to Uni at any age, mature students at so much more common than when I studied. By postponing the decision he could also get some 'life experience' and save some money to lessen the debt incurred by going to Uni.

    At the time I think people were astounded at my attitude, but he did gain enormously by not studying further and getting 'true life experience'. I personally feel Uni should be 'for the few', so it is again valued and others given suitable experiences tailored to their own talents.

    He did say a 'Goodbye' earlier on this year and say he wouldn't be posting again. sorry to see him go, but everyone is allowed a personal choice.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
    thistledoo, foxtail3 and Duke of York like this.
  14. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Love the OP... says everything I think...
    thistledoo and Lara mfl 05 like this.
  15. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    So true... every week we're expected to enter data... I have no idea what to enter and what to base it on.

    All just made up tosh.
  16. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter


    The way selection was proposed by not giving everyone "a shot" at higher education was not just about content of said education it was implying a selection process which would prevent some having "a shot" at HE... that sounded fundamentally unfair in my book and would continue the vast class differentials that most who post here argue against. To be clear, the debate about the content of education is separate to the debate about being given the opportunity to access it.
  17. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    The job has changed out of all proportion in the last 10 years. I still enjoy it but it really takes a lot of energy and effort these days.

    Oh well - half term next week - time for a breather.
  18. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    I'm not actually anti-data as such, it does have a part to play.

    The problem is that that it is used as the bluntest of blunt instruments in the hands of those who either don't know any better or are prepared to do as they are told to maintain or advance their position. Shortly before I left teaching my school acquired a new VP in charge of data, he was a very ambitious English teacher and clearly didn't understand his misuse of data or its limitations, he just applied it as he had been shown to get his own pats on the head.

    It's a shame we hear phrases like "lies, damn lies and statistics" so often as if it is somehow the fault of the statistics when in reality it is some combination of incomplete or inappropriately applied statistics and a misunderstanding by those seeing the statistics, quite often as to the basic validity of them at all.

    All too often, there is the teacher on a hiding to nothing with a poorly motivated class, part of a poorly motivated year group with kids who have "under achieved" throughout their school life as defined by some spurious and flawed test in the distant past. On the other hand for instance, a former colleague of mine went up from UPS2 to the now very rare UPS3 last year on the basis of the results of a single A level class that contained 3 students. If your face fits...
    tonymars and Alice K like this.
  19. red_observer

    red_observer Star commenter

    Spot on Frank!
  20. LadyPsyche

    LadyPsyche New commenter

    Yes. Spot on.

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