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"The Politics of Envy"

Discussion in 'Personal' started by MAGAorMIGA, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    Does the "politics of envy" actually exist? Is it mere "envy" to criticise a system which enables a few to live lives of conspicuous consumption and waste while millions struggle to clothe themselves and their children, to keep warm and be adequately fed?

    Is it mere "envy" to point out that unfettered capitalism automatically leads to this outcome, as well as to monopolies and cartels?
     
  2. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    Come again ?
     
  3. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Good job we dont have unfettered capitalism. Most people appear content with the right of centre model we have in the UK. But theres room for better distribution of wealth.
     
  4. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Inequality, innit??
     
  5. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Thing is, you could redistribute the country's wealth and share it all out equally. Then in five yours you would have to do it all again because the savvy and sensible will have made good use if their wealth while the materialistic and stupid will have blown their share.
     
  6. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    It needs a tax regime that achieves a "levelled" society, which avoids the extreme differences between the richest and poorest. A tax on wealth would help.
     
  7. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    As we currently have a progressive tax regime, it means that we still have to review it regularly to deal with the situation nomad (rather harshly) describes above. You can keep giving people more and more money but only a proportion will know how to use it to keep themselves from remaining in the original dependent state, we can look back to see how although we may not be clear why... other than some of the lessons of accumulation, dealing with change and externalities have still not been learned because they didn't have to learn them... Of course the poverty we speak of in the main is relative and shifts as incomes fluctuate.

    By a tax on wealth do you mean a redistribution of wealth as in simply take it away? I'd sell it and move to Switzerland or somewhere else if that became an issue for me or mine... as the late Roger Moore put it as he justified living in Monaco he'd paid his dues.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  8. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    It's an older persons version (I was going to say "grown up" but it's not) of the playground retort "Yeh, you're just jealous".

    No, I'm not jealous, I have identified something that is wrong.
     
  9. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    With respect it doesn't take much to identify that, the long term solution (that doesn't create other longer term problems) however is clearly far more complicated.
     
    JohnJCazorla likes this.
  10. Oscillatingass

    Oscillatingass Star commenter

    While it is true that a few live lives of conspicuous consumption and waste while millions struggle, there are millions more who work hard and do ok. Because of this latter category I think we will not see a revolution either in the ballot box or on the streets.
     
    needabreak likes this.
  11. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    My response was to the phrase itself which is readily trotted out by those who get large amounts of money for not doing a great deal for it while avoiding taxes in ways not available to those not able to pay the £20,000 entry fee or whatever it is to do so.
     
  12. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    True although the media in its various forms can inadvertently or otherwise suggest things are more widespread than they are to sensationalise apparent news stories, and try to justify their own existence.
     
  13. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    I don't associate with those kinds of people so don't hear it from them.
     
  14. Oscillatingass

    Oscillatingass Star commenter

    Marxism innit?
     
  15. JosieWhitehead

    JosieWhitehead Star commenter

    The politics of envy does exist - but we live in a world side by side with poverty too and extreme wealth. It's hard to say: 'Take away everything that anyone has worked for' because where will that leave people? The nursing homes, for one thing, would have to shut down because they take more money from people who are old and sick than anyone else does in life. If people had given away their money and couldn't pay for their care in their old age, would those who have taken their money be prepared to pay a heck of a lot more in National Health Insurance or whatever, to pay for their care? Then also, take away wealth and where will the money come from to run businesses and pay people their wages? Where will money come from to invest in many of the things we enjoy today? Yes, envy does exist and usually within families I'm afraid - and that is why there are so many family breakups at Christmas when family members are thrown together.
     
  16. Photo51

    Photo51 Established commenter

    Higher taxes for those earning over £28,000.
    Wealth tax on all home owners.

    Can't see it as a vote winner.
     
  17. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    Not with such low limits, no, but not exactly rich is it?


    [​IMG]
    https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk

    The gap is increasing between the rich and the rest and the richer you are the faster it grows, I'm pretty sure the rich are not working any harder for their money, but are better at hanging onto it and hiding it.

    [​IMG]
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-divide-widening-latest-figures-a7886756.html

    The idea of social wealth seems interesting.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/18/rich-britons-inequality-poverty-social-wealth
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
    MAGAorMIGA likes this.
  18. Oscillatingass

    Oscillatingass Star commenter

    A very close relative of mine is a Third year Doctor in the NHS. She has had no inherited wealth and has worked darned hard to get where she is. She earns more that £28,000 and pays her fair share of taxes. If it was decided to clobber people like her for yet more taxes there would be no incentive to work in the NHS and having qualified, people like her would simply take their skills elsewhere. It seems to me we need to be sure we reward people who contribute most to our society not penalize them because they have chosen to work hard and not have large numbers of children they cannot afford to bring up.
     
    peter12171 likes this.
  19. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    My father used to say "If you cut everyone off with a shilling, by next week, some of the people would have five shillings but most of them would have none."

    It grieves me that existing tax legislation allows the likes of oligarchs and Amazon to dodge taxes.
     
    monicabilongame and nomad like this.
  20. Photo51

    Photo51 Established commenter

    That would be a consideration for anyone who felt clobbered for more tax. It's a difficult balance to achieve.
     
    needabreak likes this.

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