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The MANY problems with the IPC - how do I get out of it? There are better ceaper options and the IPC "planning" is dreadful! It's idea of re

Discussion in 'Primary' started by Chrishbk, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. Apologies for bumping this round a few other threads. But their all based on the IPC, so thought this may be relevent to people asking how effective the IPC is.

    I have since written a letter that is much more composed than my first post on this thread. This along with teacher power may lead to us no longer using the IPC. If anyone would like a copy of it (listing the IPC's faults and how it's not in a schools best interest to use it) please private message me and I'll be happy to send you a copy you can use.
  2. titus4t

    titus4t New commenter

    Have to say this is music to my ears. I am currently trying to persuade my school to use Hamilton rather than IPC as our route towards thematic planning as its cheap, really easily accessible and, based on my experience of the topics I've taught, good.

    Will be printing this out to take to our next staff meeting

  3. hold on, isn't part of a teacher's job to plan the curriculum depending on the children's needs? Why are you expecting all your planning done for you by someone who has never met your children? Isn't that what PPA time is for? Doesn't it excite you that you can work from a basic framework and make it into something great for your children?
  4. comenius

    comenius New commenter

    here here ed_ant2002
  5. flickaz

    flickaz New commenter

    Yes ed_ant2002 I totally agree with you. My school started using the IPC in September and after a few teething problems most of us are now loving it. I've just started to plan for my next unit - "The big picture - an historical overview" and am loving the fact that I can do history with the exciting bits and not just the bits I'm told I have to do or I find boring. We're going to have a whistle stop tour through the last 2000 years picking out the bits that will actually interest the kids. I can see why some people in KS1 might find it harder but surely the research sections can be adapted and taught? I'm more enthusiastic than before, I have the freedom to choose what I teach and not have to squeeze all the geography into the first half term so I can do all the history in the next half term.
  6. flickaz

    flickaz New commenter

    Sorry but I don't understand this personal crusade you seem to be on to convert the world against IPC. Maybe it's a bit like marmite, you either love it or you hate it. If you hate it then vote with your feet and leave your current school if it makes you that unhappy but stop having a dig at those of us who use it and find it good.
  7. Glad others think that this arguement is completely ridiculous. I know a bit about the IPC as I was going for a job at a school that used so did a bit of research - and it seemed pretty good. Enough guidance to get you going but scope to do your own thing. I know that it is influenced by the IB Primary Years Program which I have taught, if the OP is moaning about th IPC then he should check the PYP out for wooliness! But somehow we managed to teach decent stuff using our own plans and resources. As for the Key Stage 1 issue, I know the PYP expected young children to learn through play base enquiry, is there scope for this with the IPC?
    At my current school we have actually made up our topics so do our own planning and resources, again we manage to cope without having nervous breakdowns. Its being going a couple of years now, and we are still ironing out issues but its getting there, and is designed to be changed over times to meet the children's needs/interests.
    I think the QCA schemes and all the commercial gunk that went with it have a lot to answer for teachers being unable to cope with having to actually think, plan and prepare for themselves.
  8. bedingfield

    bedingfield New commenter

    I have been using the IPC for the past two years now and have mixed feelings about it.
    I agree that if the topics are used as per the IPC plans, then the majority of the learning is research based (often rooted in the use of ICT), and doesn't always cover the NC requirements. You have to be prepared to adapt the planning to suit the children. I also find that the host country that you are supposed to link to each topic doesn't always fit with what you are doing and the organisation of the topics into Mileposts very confusing when you are trying to choose something that is appropriate for your year group.
    At our school we have sheets for each subject that show the NC objectives for that year group and we check to make sure that the IPC topics chosen cover the majority of those objectives. We still have to do stand alone RE, ICT and PE but that is not a big issue.
    On a positive note, the topics we choose are well received by the children. Especially the chocolate one, which culminates in a trip to Cadbury World. At the end of the year, the topics for each year group are reviewed and if it is felt that a particular topic hasn't been successful, then it is changed. I did this last year, as we had covered only a limited amount of history and so I have made sure that more is included through a different topic.
    I agree that it is an expensive way of implementing a topic based curriculum, but it is a great starting point and I find that it gives a teacher some good ideas that can be adapted.
  9. Exactly. I've ALREADY done this with my existing planning and resources. TWICE - as I've moved from mone year group to another.
  10. titus4t

    titus4t New commenter

    I'd still like to know how it compares to Hamilton which is SOOOO much cheaper. Is there anyone out there who has experience of both?


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    shawn here again!

    Just think I need to re-assess my point of this thread before it gets off
    course. I do think the IPC isn't value for money, I do think there are better
    cheaper options out there, but my point of the intial post was to:

    a) vent some anger! I’m human, and my wife was fed up of listening to me
    whine about it to her (understandable!). My school is only a small one in the
    middle of the Leicester countryside, but we had a damn good ofsted inspection
    just 11 months ago, planning included. Why not spend the 10 grand on something

    b) share my thoughts for other teachers in similar
    situations so that I could help prevent them from being in the same situation I’m
    in! It seems my letter hasn’t worked as we’re bringing it in next term, but I’ve
    had two messages from folk in a similar situation who say they’ve used my rant
    and the letter I e-mailed them in their meetings and its had some effect. I
    also suggest you check out the ‘IPC – more irrelevant paper work’ thread.

    points and questions. Why is it value for money to provide nothing but a
    template? Why is it that heads love it but teachers seem split, in relation to
    teachers being the ones having to fill in the holes? Should they not offer
    loads of resources and in depth ideas for this kind of money, and THEN we can
    ignore whatever we want and use whatever we want for those who want to do it
    from scratch?

    Basically I’ve been teaching for nearly ten years now. I
    like my school, the setup, the fact I get to teach sport with the senior school
    kids (we are kind of twinned with a senior school and ‘unofficially merge’) and
    don’t want to move. But my planning is good. Why is the IPC worth the cash? I
    don’t want to seem like I’m challenging people on this, I’d just dearly love to
    hear an answer beyond ‘the kids love it...’ or something that sounds like a
    quote from their website. How do you get children under Year 4 who aren’t
    strong enough readers or on the computers to research, research, research? I’m
    teaching Year 3 next year so at least it’ll be better than Reception, which I
    did when I started in 2001, but I still think they’ll struggle to research.
  12. flickaz

    flickaz New commenter

    Then teach them how to research. Preselect websites and do some information retrieval practice. Link it in through your literacy and guided reading. Since starting IPC with my class they have become a lot more independent and don't rely on me to spoonfeed them information. Yes my weaker readers need a lot more support but they work in a group with me or the TA and they have a go. We read the sites together and talk about what is good information and what we can ignore.
  13. Chrishbk....no offence but you sound like a **** teacher who just blames others. That's what your posts say about you whether its true or not and I imagine you are a very negative person to be around so I am glad you are not part of my team.
    I am Director of IPC at my school - and no I didn't bring it in, it was there long before I joined- but it is fab. When I took over half the teachers moaned to me that it was useless and the SoW weren't detailed enough and I told them this:
    You get paid to plan, you get paid to differentiate and you get paid to teach!!! GET OVER IT!!!
    No the SoW aren't perfect which is why they constantly update them and you can download the new ones online. A general SoW should NEVER be used by any school anyway as it is not tailored to your kids- you take it, modify it, differentiate it and incorporate what's important to your children- if you think this is beyond your capabilities or above you then you are in the wrong job and I'd hate to have you teach my kids.
    The chn at my school LOVE IPC!!! We teach everything incl lit and numeracy through it and we create using our own ideas and resources fantastic entry pts and exit pts. We don't log chn into pcs- from y2 they are taught to do this themselves- maybe you should TEACH your chn to do this. We TEACH them how to research and now all KS2 are great at this. We FACILITATE the devlopment of skills and abilities so chn take their own perspective on topics. We FUNDRAISE for money for IPC if we need new resources/trips.
    Basically- we do what needs to be done for the kids to learn. Whinging gets you nowhere. GET OVER IT!!!!
  14. I kinda feel sorry for shawn (chrishbk) here. He makes some good points a fair few people on the forums seem to agree with, myself included.
    I wouldn't consider myself negative, but even now that one or two of you (who maybe as guilty of being pro the IPC as he is against it) have given explanations saying how you make it work, I still think there's a case to be made that maybe the IPC should giver you more options and resources to choose from when you're "filling in the holes." If you choose to use them, ignore them and do your own... whatever, for 10 big ones I'd want that choice and option.
    I'm also in a position where I've recieved good feedback from an inspection, and have to wonder how if it ain't broke don't fix it. I do update and tweak my planning so that its getting better and better as well, so I don't think I'm being lazy! The IPC guy (who I also found to be a pain!) came to my school and he said that "good teachers don't need the IPC." I'm guessing because good teachers are already doing the good ideas behind it already and don't need the template or skeleton the IPC provides to work from?
    Anyway, I've never been one to get embroiled in a debate, life's too short! I'm not saying I'm a great teacher, but I do think my planning is good enough to not warrant my school spending 10 big ones on IPC planning that won't really change the end result or get a better inspection result (in that sense I suppose I'm complimenting the IPC's ideas and thinking, if not their execution!). My thinking is maybe Shawn's a **** teacher, maybe he's in the same boat I'm in and dozens of others on the forums seem to be, but let's keep it constructive! I think there are good and bad points about the IPC - namely the ideas and thinking behind it are sound, but if you're already executing this with your existing set-up don't re-write the dictionary!Thanks for the letter Shawn, it has helped me put my concerns into a well framed document. I would advise you post it on here as its much better than your initial rant and makes your points in a way that might not get people riled up!

    Scotty H out!
  15. Sparky 1985 - are you high!?

    The IPC is for people who need HELP planning their creative curriculum. Thats why they provide a skeleton for you to fill the meat around.
    Guys like Shawn and ALL the others who've posted here and across all the other anti-IPC threads say the same thing. They HAVE ALREADY created a good curriculum (some say that the Inspectors have already seen and evaluated and praised their existing plans!). They did this by working hard and being good, creative teachers.
    They therefore do not need their school to spend ten thousand pounds so that they can start a new set of plans from scratch. And if they do decide they want, or NEED to start a new set of plans, the general consensus across the forums seems to be one of : "I told my head that for £10,000 I'd gladly design my own set of planning."
    There are plenty of people who do this, who are good teachers and planners and don't NEED the IPC to walk them through the formative stages of designing their own planning.
    So, having had the nerve to question the standard of other posters teaching, I would actually put a spotlight on the quality of YOUR planning and teaching ability, as if you need to spend all that money for the IPC to effectively walk you through the process of planning I wouldn't hire you or want you on MY team either.
  16. The IPC is what you make of it- what they give you falls short -my main problem was the total lack of ICT - just research research, thats why I've put thie wiki together www.primaryschooltools.com a wiki for primary schools that use the International Primary Curriculum (IPC). Anyone can add useful information. The idea is to create a 'one stop shop' of web based online resources that can be used in the classroom to support all subjects and IPC topics
  17. Maybe this can help a wiki for primary schools that use the International Primary Curriculum (IPC). Anyone can add useful information. The idea is to create a 'one stop shop' of web based online resources that can be used in the classroom to support all subjects and IPC topics
  18. imanewteacher2007

    imanewteacher2007 New commenter

    Hi guys

    Interesting read, am in my first half term of using the IPC (Year 5) and I also have mixed feelings. Hoping the unit I have a the moment is just a dud one.

    Anyways, do any of you have a science policy you could share with me which refers to your creative planning and the use of IPC? My job is to rejig the policy and I was hoping to have a policy that I could use as a reference point.

    Thank you

  19. Hi.My school has used ipc for a year. I am auditing science with regard to what IPC provides and the statutory requirements of the national curriculum. The shortfall is enormous.
  20. swish1

    swish1 New commenter

    We use Dimensions Curriculum. It's far better value for money, no annual fee, covers the NC thoroughly yet gives you plenty of freedom, scope and support to be creative. Just google Dimensions Curriculum. Plenty of schools we've recommended it to are choosing it over IPC. It's just not as well known but that doesn't mean it isn't a better option.
    Davidc6070 likes this.

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