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The issue that will not go away.

Discussion in 'Personal' started by lexus300, Dec 11, 2015.

  1. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    From the FT today:

    ""Tackling England’s housing crisis is among the foremost challenges facing policymakers. It also cannot be left to the market. Governments decide the supply of land and necessary infrastructure. Governments set the taxes and offer the subsidies that affect housing. Governments also influence access to finance. So how well have they been playing these roles? If the aim has been to make housing as expensive as possible, the answer must be: very well. On any other criteria, the results have been dire.

    Here are some relevant facts about UK housing.

    First, in the financial years from April 1969 to April 1974, an annual average of 286,000 dwellings was started in England. In 2014-15, a mere 138,000 were started. While this was much more than the 88,000 started in 2008-09, it is still extremely low.

    Second, house prices have soared. according to LSL property services, average real house prices in England and Wales doubled between January 2000 and October 2015. In London, real house prices rose 150 per cent over this period and are now 29 per cent above the pre-crisis peak.

    Finally, there has been a big fall in the proportion of dwellings in owner-occupation. Between 2007-08 and 2012-13, the proportion of dwellings in owner-occupation fell by 4 percentage points, to 60 per cent of the total in Great Britain. In London, the rate of owner-occupation fell to its lowest level since 1981, at just a little over 40 per cent.""

    Nothing to add, except successive Governments have done so little yet talk so much.
    Mangleworzle likes this.
  2. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    There needs to be an answer and before too long. A report came out yesterday that the 65-75 age group are better off than the under 45's for the first time ever largely due to the cost/value of housing.

    I also noted that stamp duty changes helped slow down the top end of the market by a significant margin. On a smallish island where we want to keep it green and pleasant, the issue of distribution of ownership has to be addressed by governments, they eventually and slowly took on pensions which is ongoing, time to address housing.
    midnight_angel and lexus300 like this.
  3. Ghost-of-Christmas-Past

    Ghost-of-Christmas-Past Established commenter

    • Population needs controlling - reducing
    • Flooding must be taken into account - those claiming that the UK has abundant building land are correct - just that much of it floods - to control that would cost billions,
    • More working from home - many jobs that take up office space could be done from home freeing up addition residential use.
    Just a few ideas above
  4. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Double or triple council tax on second homes or unoccupied properties.

    For second home purchases increase the rate of stamp duty and lower the threshold.

    Also, remember the property bubble is in the British governments best interest as it creates the illusion of a thriving economy.


    Britain’s consumers are in so much debt that only surging property prices will give them the confidence to spend money, so creating the economic growth that keeps Tories in government. Allow the property bubble to burst and you’ll destroy the good feeling in the High Street.
    InkyP and lexus300 like this.
  5. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Also freeing up local authorities instead of relying on the failed private sector might be a good idea.
    InkyP likes this.
  6. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    The "good feeling" seems to be experienced by an ever decreasing number of ever wealthier people. As those without property pay more in rent to those who have it the gulf just gets wider.
    Noja likes this.
  7. bluelemonade

    bluelemonade Occasional commenter

    I think we all realise there will be a housing crash at some point, because for the rising generations, it is impossible to afford a home, especially around London. In actual fact, I am surprised it hasn't happened yet. Investment banking has shrunk very significantly in the last few years, as I am reliably told, and the loss of this will ultimately translate into personal finance, and a risk averse banking sector. Of course, politicians will tell you otherwise, but for me the writing was on the wall a couple of years ago.

    The pensioners, who have lived off ever increasing house values may need to re-assess at some point, and I think that will be a good thing overall, so that life re-balances itself, as pointed out above.
  8. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Indeed it does... my point is the government is relying on it. So they aren't going to take any action that jeopardises the 'bubble'.
  9. bluelemonade

    bluelemonade Occasional commenter

    The failed private sector? Where do you think tax revenue comes from then dear Lanokia?
  10. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    The private sector has failed to deliver the housing this country needs. Look at the graph.
  11. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    The pensioners are probably hanging on to their houses because (a) they need somewhere to live, (b) they may need to sell them to pay for care later on, (c) they want to be able to give something useful to their children who cannot get onto the housing ladder, and (d) because owning your own home with a mortgage paid off is a heck of a lot cheaper than going into rented accommodation where any capital you have will be eaten up very fast.
    InkyP likes this.
  12. bluelemonade

    bluelemonade Occasional commenter

    That's true, but there are many people riding the property market, with buy to lets and second and third homes, born out of profit when house price inflation was at it's most.
    Orkrider2 likes this.
  13. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter


    13% from business and corporation tax. The rest from the people of the UK.
  14. bluelemonade

    bluelemonade Occasional commenter

    Yes but businesses pay people in the private sector, don't they?
  15. bluelemonade

    bluelemonade Occasional commenter

    Oh I do love a "pie chart though"!
  16. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    That's pay... not tax. And not really related to the topic.

    Edit: overly dismissive of me, I just mean that eventually you end up in a circular self-defeating argument which settles on the question 'where does money come from?'...
  17. bluelemonade

    bluelemonade Occasional commenter

    I am wandering off post here, and wonder why the something of Health UK thinks overweight women are as big a threat as terrorists... Could this be the new bubble to be burst? So It's OK to be an overweight man then? Is that tax deductible? I am beginning to think we are living in a mad world of opinions over fact.
    Noja likes this.
  18. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    It's always been opinions over facts... people form an opinion and then welcome evidence that supports their opinion. In all my time posting on opinion I can't think of a time when someone has said 'you know what, I use to think X but all the evidence I've been shown, I now think Y'.
  19. bluelemonade

    bluelemonade Occasional commenter

    No, Lan, because you pay tax in nearly every transaction you make via VAT. Where that money came from is from the private sector, because the public sector does not create wealth: it spends it.
  20. Ghost-of-Christmas-Past

    Ghost-of-Christmas-Past Established commenter

    This is a fact.:) Often ignored.

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