the Higher/Foudation gamble

Discussion in 'Mathematics' started by canteach, Feb 28, 2010.

1. canteach

Hi
If you have a student on the C/D borderline, say KS3 level 6. Is there any research (or teacher opinion) on whether you take the foundation gamble (approx 75% needed for a C) or the Higher gamble (40% needed).

Many thanks

2. ResourceFinder

Linear?
I would go on performance in mocks

3. canteach

Hi

No edexcel modules. Trouble is they only do a mock in one or the other. May be that is the key, getting the borderline students to do a foundation and a higher mock...although that doubles teachers marking.

Hmmmm...

4. penchoNew commenter

If you are doing modular then the results students have already received should give you an idea of how they are doing and whether they can cope with a higher tier exam. We usually say if pupils are not on a mid to high C before last module then we recommend they go for foundation.
I would encourage you to analsyse data from previous years, this will help you make judgements. TRy and look at studetns with similar marks and profiles. It does help you make decisions.

5. evi71

If you have a student with a level 6 at KS3 you should be getting them a C+ in fact two levels progress indicates a B. Really you should be looking at why a solid C student appears to be underachieving so that you think they are borderline.

6. brookes

Something that struck me - our (alleged) D/Cs were mostly L5s at the end of KS3.

7. DMNew commenter

Here are the figures:

<u>Level 5 at KS3</u>
No GCSE 2.0%
U 2.7%
G 0.5%
F 3.0%
E 23.3%
D 42.0%
C 24.0%
B 2.3%
A 0.0%
A* 0.0%

<u>Level 6 at KS3</u>
No GCSE 0.8%
U 1.0%
G 0.0%
F 0.1%
E 2.6%
D 15.7%
C 52.2%
B 25.8%
A 1.6%
A* 0.0%

8. evi71

And those I am afraid are the underachievers in our target centred world

9. Maths_MikeNew commenter

underachievers maybe but that is the reality of the progress that kids ypu cant argue with the facts - and entering them for higher is not in itself likely to improve matters.

So yet again evi I find you post a bit pointless and not at all helpful to the OP

10. evi71

...and yet again you throw an insult, amazing what these bulletin boards bring out in some people.
The point for the OP is that their expectations should be higher in the first place of those students. I also find it quite surprising that you think all your posts are directly helpful to the original questions.....

11. Maths_MikeNew commenter

only 28% of level 6's achieve a B or better so only these students are clearly higher.

I would certainly expect level 6 students to be targetted a B and yes I would expect them to be exposed to a higher course but the reality as proven by the facts is that many just are not up to it.

The higher course (or more correctly the removal of intermediate) has been really disadvantageous to these students. The only option is to follow a highr course but not expect them to do any of the A, A* stuff and hence eneter them for an exam where you know full well several questions will be on topics they have not even studied.

To say this is less than ideal is and understatement.

12. Maths_MikeNew commenter

The Op asked a far question Foundation or Higher. For Level 6 studenst this is a perfectly valid question and does not suggest low expectations.
Popinting out as you did that L6 studenst who go on to get D or less means underachievement wasan obvious and pointless comment

13. Maths_MikeNew commenter

*fair (not far)

14. DMNew commenter

We do the Higher Tier without A and A* topics option. I feel uncomfortable about that.

15. evi71

I cant get rid of the cartoon.
There is no option other than to aim B without A and A*, remember the arguments for H vs I and I vs F when we had them. We have to be constantly challenging the level 6 students to achieve better, the majority should be on the higher paper, knowing that they are there to try and get a B. To be considering them borderline D/C as the OP said implies that his expectations are NOT high enough, they SHOULD be getting a C. I never said that couldn't be on the foundation inthe WORST case, in which case they should know they are on the foundation because they have struggled to reach the B topics so the foundation is better for them as they are solid C's.
As to MathsMike and his posts - put what you like to argue with me, criticise me, etc I won't bother to reply , you can have the last word , you aren't worth the effort. You have clearly made me realise that this bulletin board isn't full of peole who are keen to share experiences and ideas but full of know it alls who like the 'sound of their own voices'

16. ResourceFinder

Easy

Anyway ... I taught the C/D set last year and entered them for Higher ... lots of focus at all grades ... they found sine and cosine rule easier than trig in some examples because the questions were more straight forward .... they were great with Vectors ... higher level in theory but no prior understanding needed ... they were partuclarly good at transforming graphs!!

Apart from the Bs they all got C grades

17. evi71

Sounds fab approach, great. I think that also involves high expectations and a can do approach. You are quite right some of the higher topics, chosen carefully, can be more accessible than the expected C B topics.

18. DMNew commenter

I got 3 As out of the C/D set last year without really teaching them any A/A* stuff (I did do the Sine and Cosine Rule). Unforunately all 3 got overexcited about this success and went on to do A Level and all 3 are really struggling now. Hence the discomfort.

19. ResourceFinder

Hmmmmmmm

interestingly 2 of my Bs are doing AS and doing well

that is probably down to them as individuals though

BUT I know what you mean

20. DMNew commenter

Perhaps you are still teaching yours? I am not but still feel responsible for them! All 3 look destined for U grades at AS. I regret to say I drilled them to succeed at their GCSE exams rather than equipping them with any real understanding of mathematics.