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The Failure of Selling Resources.

Discussion in 'Tes Authors' Group' started by Room_101, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. TheGingerTeacher

    TheGingerTeacher Established commenter Forum guide and community helper

    I agree @z1k why come to a seller forum to try and convince us we are all immoral? It's very odd. These threads do pop up again and again. It is strange that the people starting them seem to have no other activity at all on the forums... Read into that what you will...
  2. Room_101

    Room_101 New commenter

    No that's just the part you want to focus on.

    ** It's a moral issue because it negatively impacts on pupils as well.
    ** Instead of making (mainly) a pittance here depriving pupils inexperienced teachers and of resources it would be more productive to all work together to ensure that we as teachers get paid properly. I think it' s a moral disgrace that teachers find themselves in this position.
    3 Morality, in general, can be applied to any argument with 2 sides where the possible outcome is that one side is right and one side is wrong (or there is some middle compromise) It's simply the application of broader issues fo impact on others, I'm not unhappy to discuss things in terms of morals. I think anyone who has the courage to place their arguments in terms of the moral right contributes a welcome and clear contribution..

    ** Attacks on me as a person kind of do the opposite, though, and so does accusing me of having some unpleasant ulterior motive for initiating the discussion. I think it's clear to the vast majority of people but I'll say this for those who are unclear about this. Discuss the issues - if you seriously can't come up with reasons why selling is good, and only find reasons why I as a person am bad and therefore unworthy to be listened to you only underline the impression that yes it is wrong to sell resources, because you can;t form an argument without making a personal attack on the person.
  3. blowswind

    blowswind Occasional commenter

    You're pretty evasive at discussing the issues yourself. It's clear from your screenshot that you are a self employed tutor.

    Why is it morally acceptable to profit from tutoring but not by selling resources?
  4. Room_101

    Room_101 New commenter

    Amazing ....No sooner do I point out the lack of cohesive argument and the tendency to make rather snide personal attacks then someone pops up and does just that!! :)
  5. studeapps

    studeapps New commenter

    As awesome as this thread is, I'm not going to comment on it anymore as it uses time better spent on other things. I really enjoy it though so I'll check in every few hours. *This is going to get good*

    michael jackson popcorn.gif
    mathsmutt and emjcot like this.
  6. thinkypublishing

    thinkypublishing Occasional commenter

    I sell resources, not only on here but also in school catalogues. The cost of the resources in the catalogues is embarrasingly high because the catalogues mark the costs up by 50%. I never believed they would sell at the prices they set but they do and have done for many years.

    The digital resources I create are at a far lower price but still represent hours of work. The resource I am working on now has taken me over a week and is still not complete. I try to create resources that teachers can be proud of handing out and enjoy using and most importantly that will save them time. I give copies to teachers I know for free and appreciate the feedback I get from doing so.

    I also provide free copies of my resources and other educational bits and bobs to schools I work with in Africa. I volunteer to work with kids in various ways 2 or 3 times a week. Since 2001 I have raised approaching £1 million for charitable causes. Many of the young people I supported in my previous work have since gone on to become teachers.

    I don't feel I need my morals or motivations to be questioned.
  7. richardtock

    richardtock New commenter

    Putting aside the moral arguments (because they're just two sides with different points of view who probably won't change their minds) this is baloney. I am not depriving anyone of anything. If premium resources didn't exist, the resources I have as premium at the moment would simply not exist. I don't think I would find the motivation to make them and upload them. They would simply be made to a less high standard and not shared.
    tchristin, mathsmutt and krisgreg30 like this.
  8. JaquesJaquesLiverot

    JaquesJaquesLiverot Established commenter

    I can't currently afford to do it, but yes - I think I would. I think that I probably do a better job with my own children than with those that I'm paid to teach, because I don't have the constraints of time and I'm more interested in the outcome.
    stupot101 likes this.
  9. thinkypublishing

    thinkypublishing Occasional commenter

    I do both paid and voluntary work. My motivation with them is the same but with the voluntary roles I'm more inclined to say no to the bits I don't like. Interestingly I don't find I'm any more appreciated for the volunteering, sometimes even less so.
  10. TheGingerTeacher

    TheGingerTeacher Established commenter Forum guide and community helper

    @Room_101 do you not think you are being a tad over sensitive? Have re-read my comment and I'm pretty sure it can in no way be described as an attack?

    As for lack of argument there are many,many, many threads (including this one) where sellers like myself and the others on here have made valid and clearly explained arguments for the sale of premium resources. Just because you disagree does not make them not exist.
    nick_redshaw and mathsmutt like this.
  11. blowswind

    blowswind Occasional commenter

    Some of the most difficult children I've taught have been the children of teachers.
    Room_101, mathsmutt and wanet like this.
  12. z1k

    z1k New commenter

    Wow you are totally right in what you say. As I think I mentined earlier, no-one's mind is going to be swayed!
    vuvuzela and nick_redshaw like this.
  13. Urbanfaerie

    Urbanfaerie Occasional commenter

    I would like to clarify my position in case people think this is my opinion - I don't think it's at all immoral for teachers to sell resources. My opinion is that we should live in a society where teachers are paid enough and therefore wouldn't need to sell resources. Apologies to any teachers who thought I was criticizing them.
  14. vuvuzela

    vuvuzela Occasional commenter

    It's a non-issue really. Those who want to sell are going to sell. End of story.

    And frankly, I think teachers here are selling resources too cheaply! Compare prices with what you'd pay for books on teaching in bookshops. They cost a fortune!

    Funnily enough, noone seems to object to spending £8.99 on the latest disposable wad of salacious drivel from a spinning stand at an airport bookshop, but ask them to pay a couple of quid for a teaching resource and you'd think they'd caught you trying to sell your grandmother!

    The same thing happened when people started to monetise the Internet. Originally everything was free. It was a wonderful source of free information. Then people started to see the potential for selling stuff and there was moaning and resentment.

    Finally, I doubt a lot of resources would even get made if it were not for the potential to sell them.
    bekastks and tchristin like this.
  15. Room_101

    Room_101 New commenter

    I think your reply lacks a certain amount of logic in numerous ways...

    1. The capacity to sell has been developed by TES, not the individuals selling, before this they were predominantly not selling resources, so an ongoing discussion of the success and consequences should be encouraged.

    2. You call this a "non-issue" but it's been discussed for several weeks now, this is response 75. Hardly a debate no one is interested in.

    3. No one objects to buying a holiday novel because they are going on holiday. All these resources are being used by teachers to work. I can't think of another profession where professionals are so poorly funded that they need to buy the resources which are central to their work. The culture of individual teachers propping up the culture of underfunding is a really negative step.

    4. The internet thing.....yeah yeah...no, no..... yeah but no but... Not really relevant or accurate.... But that's a whole other discussion...

    5. Resources were being made and shared for free in their hundreds of thousands for years on TES before the idea of selling was imposed. TES simply saw an oppportunity to make money off the backs of the creativity of teachers.... Again, I'm failing to see the glory and inevitability of the step.....
  16. blowswind

    blowswind Occasional commenter

    But you are self employed. Surely you must be aware that many people who are self employed must purchase items central to their work? Or have you become so used to piggybacking off the work of others that you now resent giving something back and choose to ignore the many other professions who use their own money to invest in their chosen career?

    Teachers do not have to buy resources central to their work. They can choose to use those provided by the school and to create their own.

    They may choose to purchase resources to save them time or add to their knowledge.

    Your anger lacks a certain amount of logic in numerous ways... beginning with the issue of choice.
    vuvuzela likes this.
  17. JaquesJaquesLiverot

    JaquesJaquesLiverot Established commenter

    They don't need to buy them, though - they could make them like a lot of the resource authors did. What they're buying is convenience, not the ability to do their job.
    bekastks, z1k and vuvuzela like this.
  18. vuvuzela

    vuvuzela Occasional commenter

    Well, I wasn't planning on getting involved in the debate, per se, but go on, you've tempted me...

    1. Why should it be encouraged? The only purpose in engaging in debate is if you think you can sway the other party to your way of thinking. You won't. People will still sell their stuff, or just stop making it if they are swayed (highly unlikely), so no-one wins. And surely you should be taking up the issue with TES, not with the vendors.

    2. It's a non-issue because you won't change anyone's mind.

    3. This issue should be taken up with the government.

    4. That's your opinion. You are welcome to hold it.

    5. Hundreds of thousands? Sounds like a great opportunity to profit then, but again, you should take it up with TES if you object, not with the vendors who are simply responding to the opportunity.
  19. wilkieway

    wilkieway New commenter

    I also write for a publisher. I don't get paid for the time spent creating the resource. They do the publishing. I only get royalties on sales. (12.5%). I worked out the hourly rate after 5 years of sales and still below minimum wage. Creating resources for TES I don' get paid for my time, I do all my own publishing and uploading and then some sell and some don't. A couple of £ a day if lucky. Why should I do it for free. It is my intellectual property.
    Writing for education is not a good career option. It is certainly not in the J K Rowling league!
    vuvuzela likes this.
  20. wanet

    wanet Star commenter

    If you are not employed by a school then you are correct. But if employed by a school then you may need to check your contract.
    Never will be. But if you want to be write fiction. But I knew someone who bought a publisher to sell their educational books. They seemed to do OK from it.

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