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The death penalty - a justice, a deterrent & a mercy

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Vince_Ulam, Dec 13, 2017.

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Should the death penalty be reinstituted?

  1. Yes

    13 vote(s)
    18.3%
  2. No

    58 vote(s)
    81.7%
  1. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    [​IMG]

    What the rate would be in a single state with and then without (or vice-versa) would be interesting.

    It does seem that the vast majority of academic evidence states that capital punishment has very little - if any - effect on deterrence.
     
  2. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

  3. Jessaki

    Jessaki Occasional commenter

    I have to disagree with you here. We are talking about ethics here and whatever stats you might try and use to justify your belief, will not sway. It is my belief, that the state has to set the example, if they legalise killing within the judicial system, then this is not setting a good example. Do as I say and not as I do.
     
    red_observer likes this.
  4. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    So on planet earth how do we measure 'closure' when it means so many different things to different people and how do judges take individual victims and victims families varying ideas about their own personal closure into account when sentencing?
    Should those whose psychological demands for closure means vengeance expect the defendant to get a harsher sentence than those whose closure may be a more compassionate emotional response?
    How is that 'fair' for the defendant? Justice, unlike closure, is based on a rational process both on planet Earth and Vulcan.
     
  5. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

  6. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    And then there is the time that the condemned sit on death row....years and years and years.
    Theres about 700 people on death row in california but no-one has been executed for 12 years. Consequently, most people on death row end up dying of natural or other causes as they are incarcerated for so long. Inevitably so do many of the victims families, not much eye for an eye closure if the murderer dies of a heart attack after 20 years inside or you die before them.
     
  7. red_observer

    red_observer Star commenter

    This is quite simply a conscience issue. No one is wrong on this topic. It’s emotional and heart felt though I do despair of the hang then brigade ...!
     
  8. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    I have not read the vast majority of academic evidence on this issue but I'd say that chart shows the opposite to be the case: Murder rates in -DP states tracks that of +DP states.
     
  9. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Whence your ethics?
     
  10. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    You appear to have this peculiar idea that crime & punishment are bloodless activities committed by one group of snowmen upon another group of snowmen.
     
    wanet likes this.
  11. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    I am for the reinstitution of the death penalty. In a state where people regard the abortion of pregnancy as a human right I don't think we get to feel squeamish about the judicial execution of adults securely convicted of murder.
     
    wanet likes this.
  12. red_observer

    red_observer Star commenter

    I think you’ve just hit in the problem....SECURELY convicted .... so many are NOT so whilst the comment about abortion isn’t a similar analogy though I get your point.
     
  13. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    If we can securely convict someone of theft, assault or rape then we can securely convict someone of murder.

    It was not intended as analogy.
     
  14. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    I'm not persuaded about the necessity of the discussion about deterrence...

    Lots of things could be brought in for ''deterrence''... Saudi Arabia chops hands off... we could have ''Live TV broadcast of the castration of sex offenders''... that'd sure be a deterrent. But it'd also be ethically and morally abhorrent for many [if not most].

    I guess it comes down to what we [as a society] see the principle purpose of judicial action being... rehabilitation? deterrence? punishment? social protection?
     
  15. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Cheers. I'm quite surprised.

    How would you have em killed?

    Are you one of those who'd do it yourself?
     
  16. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Do you think that a person can be rehabilitated following any crime?
     
  17. red_observer

    red_observer Star commenter

    But do we securely convict people of theft in every case? 100% ? Do you have stats to prove that? Fact is we do not securely convict people of murder and so as long as we do not then I am against the death penalty. I think I might be against it even IF we did securely convict people on the grounds I’ve already suggested.
     
  18. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    It doesn't appear to have an effect on the rate of capital crimes. That's what the vast majority of evidence I can find appears to say. Whether people wish to see it employed for other reasons, is another matter
     
  19. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Times change.

    I do not mind as long as it is painless. There is no point being a **** about it.

    How would you punish the perpetrators of the-crime-that-may-not-be-mentioned?
     
  20. TES_Rosaline

    TES_Rosaline Administrator Staff Member

    Hello @Vince_Ulam,

    Please can you read my post #64.

    Also, moderation decisions are not discussed in the open forum. But please feel free to send en email to Tes.Community@tesglobal.com.
     

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