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The death penalty - a justice, a deterrent & a mercy

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Vince_Ulam, Dec 13, 2017.

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Should the death penalty be reinstituted?

  1. Yes

    13 vote(s)
    18.3%
  2. No

    58 vote(s)
    81.7%
  1. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Super villain.
     
  2. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    The post has been removed. Replace it with 'people who would commit similar crimes'.
     
  3. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    I still think that there is room for hope and forgiveness.
     
  4. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    I don't accept that either. I think there should be some hope.
     
    Scintillant likes this.
  5. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Might as well put a bullet in the back of the head if you are going to throw away the keys.
     
  6. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Surely throwing away the keys is no better?
     
  7. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    There will be time to reflect on what caused this behaviour when the stories behind their upbringing are revealed. Maybe they went to church schools or had a teacher that looked at them in a funny way?

    Maybe they were sexually abused by a member of parliament and were frustrated by the delays in finding justice from the investigation?

    Maybe they realised they would never be able to afford a home and took steps to ensure they'd have a roof over their heads for the rest of their lives?

    Who knows? I don't, but I suspect there is no such thing as babies being born evil. It's a learned experience from all accounts of evil people I've read about.
     
  8. JosieWhitehead

    JosieWhitehead Star commenter

    Mmmmm - That makes one think Vince! It could happen in self-defence, but deliberately sitting and planning to murder innocent people, including little children - well, there are no words one can think of to describe such an evil act. Doing that and fighting for one's country or defending yourself against attack is quite different.
     
  9. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    'Closure' is an emotional state of mind and like grieving will be different for each individual. 'Closure' is subjective and not objective like a legal process. For example, some will emotionally approach closure with compassion and forgiveness, others with feelings of revenge and others somewhere in between, it is personal and would be different between different members of a victim's family. A legal process may not bring closure at all, that's why 'closure' has no place in a legal process, although a fair result of a rational legal process may help bring 'closure'. It is an abstract concept.
    The result of a rational. analytical and objective legal process may see justice served. But how it is served is based on precedent to ensure it is fair, not unfair and based on irrational concepts of 'closure', 'retribution' or 'vengeance'. The process must be fair, objective and rational to the accused not just the victim. Justice cannot be served and be fair if it is based on 'closure' being the emotional states of mind of the victim, the victims families or campaigns by the media or politicians on their behalf.
     
  10. Owennnn

    Owennnn Occasional commenter

    Given the number of times people convicted of crimes have later been found to be innocent, I could never agree with the death penalty. Even one single instance of a person wrongly executed for a crime they did not commit would be one too many, and I feel is a risk not worth taking.

    The prison/justice system should be about rehabilitation and safety of the public, not retribution and vengeance.
     
  11. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    While agreeing with you and feeling the same way, I always find this argument an uncomfortable one because surely it can also be applied to those falsely incarcerated?

    ''Even one single instance of a person wrongly incarcerated for a crime they did not commit would be one too many, and I feel is a risk not worth taking.''

    I think the only argument is response is at least false imprisonment can be corrected... death cannot.
     
    sparklepig2002 likes this.
  12. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    I think the highlighted point here is crucial. And is one strong, unanswerable, reason why the death penalty must never be brought back.
     
    sparklepig2002 and chelsea2 like this.
  13. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    This may be how it is on Vulcan but here on Earth we do things differently:

    'The legal system must uphold fairness in society: both in business and for individuals. We want to ensure justice for victims of crime and better rehabilitation for criminals, with a reduction in the rate of reoffending.'

    Law and the justice system, Gov.uk. Accessed 13th December 2017.

    Closure.
     
  14. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    I agree ... just that the argument wasn't presented that way... it was presented as ''A social action results in one individual suffering, therefore that social action should not occur at all.''
     
  15. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    @TES_Rosaline

    I included no names here, made no allegations of guilt and this still gets moderated? Are you really going to allow the Report function to be abused in this way, that even a prayer for a bereaved mother, still herself under sedation in hospital, is Reported & removed as against the Community Guidelines?

    I am disgusted at this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
    thatmaninthehat likes this.
  16. Jessaki

    Jessaki Occasional commenter

    The death penalty cannot exist in a civilised society.

    1) The death penalty does not deter murderers. In the US the states with DP have more murders than those without (I don't have the statistics to hand, but I am sure they can be easily found).
    2) The justice system is not fool proof, it is not 100% objective, it is subject to human error, prejudices and miscarriages of justice. You can release someone from prison, you cannot give them their life back.
    3) Sentencing someone of death does not ease the pain and loss of the victim's families, it does however create more pain and loss for the families of the sentenced to death, who are also innocent.
    4) You cannot live in a civilised society when the highest power in the state can legally kill people. It doesn't make sense.

    More death does not lead to less death.
     
    chelsea2 and thatmaninthehat like this.
  17. elledriver

    elledriver Lead commenter

    There are times when it is necessary for the state to kill people outside of judicial executions.
     
  18. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Are you sure about that?

    [​IMG]
    Wikipedia.org, accessed 13th December 2017.

    The appeal system may be exhausted. Nobody is calling for a gallows in place of a paddy wagon.

    How would you know? It is common for the families of victims to call for an end to their murderer's life.

    Yes we can, yes it does:

     
  19. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Here you go:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_United_States_by_state

    I would do it myself but I don't have the time. Be interested to see what you get.
     
  20. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

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