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The Brexit Political Agreement

Discussion in 'Personal' started by MAGAorMIGA, Nov 22, 2018.

  1. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    Is nothing more than a wishy-washy wishlist, which leaves us tied to the EU's regulatory system, and appears to be in danger of turning Gibraltar into the next big sticking point.
     
    nomad and artboyusa like this.
  2. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    It's a compromise which will satisfy no-one, but be bland enough for a majority (perhaps) to accept it.
     
    keyboard2 likes this.
  3. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Well, it's not supposed to be anything more than a list of the main points to discuss and negotiate for the (almost) two years after 29th March next year. It is not, like the Withdrawal Agreement, a final document.

    Only for the period of transition which British firms say is essential to avoid interruption to their business.

    Unlikely. The Spanish are sabre-rattling but have no veto over the document. As I understand it, it is expected to be passed on Sunday by concensus or, failing that, by qualified majority voting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  4. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    I am putting the entire house in detention every bar-opening time from now until Christmas.
    In the words of Big Jim "Catch yourselves on!"
    Can anyone watching (me) have for a second thought that it resembled bottom set Year 9 last lesson Friday?
    SHUT UP all of you or i'm clearing the house and you can all naff off with your questions and response and then explain that to your constituents.
    I'm embarrassed.

    Edit: and I've seen Trump.
     
  5. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    In Theresa we trust....o_O
     
  6. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Jeremy Corbyn was well angry and does not sound willing to compromise.

    But hey, May knows there is still one sure fire way to get her deal through. She will put it to the HoC and it will be voted down to big fanfare and screams of 'don't mess with us, parliament decides!! We cannot be bought!'

    The pound will knee jerk collapse and every big business will threaten to take a Ryanair ticket outta here.....back goes the May deal and parliament votes it through with a massive majority to 'save our economy and protect us from a no deal'.

    In essence, parliament will be bought.
     
    kibosh and needabreak like this.
  7. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter


    Or 'No Deal' will be voted down, and, rather than risking another General Election, there will be a new Referendum, and a massive vote against Brexit.

    Job done... :D
     
  8. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    Having just read through the political document to me it commits us to nothing except to work together to sort out a system of governance for rulemaking, Its a political document, it's defining the terms under which the parties should work out an agreement and the areas upon which we might agree,
    Can folks on here point out the relevant sections which show we will be tied to the EU's apron strings till such and such a time,how it describes how fisheries will be kept under control and how, as a document of statement about common goals, it indicates we will be stuck with the EU forever as some of the Brexiteers and some on here are screaming?
    "Is nothing more than a wishy-washy wishlist, which leaves us tied to the EU's regulatory system, and appears to be in danger of turning Gibraltar into the next big sticking point. "
    Are not all documents of such a nature? Where is Gibralter mentioned as I must have missed that?
    "It's a compromise which will satisfy no-one, but be bland enough for a majority (perhaps) to accept it."
    So what do you want to see stated Frank....If it stated anything other than remain you would moan, and bland it might be till the document is fleshed out. Its the beginning of the contract, whose total terms have yet to be made!
    I suspect some of the who-har is simply to shout and fuss, but no one reads whats there, Many are seeking to gain political points...Boris because he fancies himself as lPM(god help us) Corbyn and allies because he is desperate to get into power, but in the end would offer little more because the pressure of his party to remain is too strong
     
  9. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    That is the role of a good political leader to know how to handle the milling chorus of protest.except, in this case, no one wants the role until the deal is done. All leaders, good and bad, have manipulated since time immemorial. Time tells us if the leader makes the correct choice. At least she doesn't crow about how wonderful he is and what good he has done for his county like the Americain president.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-eat-one-Trump-jokes-sandwiches-delivers.html
     
  10. artboyusa

    artboyusa Star commenter

    Brexit without actually brexitting. Which was always Plan B, once Plan A failed.
     
  11. Brunel

    Brunel Lead commenter

    I’m not sure I share Florian’s optimism about Gibraltar. There are undoubtedly elements in the Spanish government who have cottoned on (rather late in the day) that Brexit is a good opportunity for them to make some progress on Gibraltar. And once government ministers in Madrid start throwing words around like ‘treachery’ to describe British actions it makes it difficult for them just to roll over and meekly sign the agreement without losing face domestically. And while technically they don’t have a veto it will be interesting to see whose position the other 26 countries support - a major country staying within the EU or a country that wants out. Time for the diplomats to earn their money again.
     
  12. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    There has yet to be put forward a cogent argument for why a system that served us well for the past 40 years needs to be changed. Not a single cogent argument of how we will benefit if we give it up or why the gamble is worth it.

    Satisfaction with the EU remained consistently good until 2015, when dissatisfaction rose dramatically. What on earth did the EU do in 2015 to justify this?

    The only thing that happened around that time was political manoeuvring and smear campaigns by the far right media and fruitcake politicians, social media infiltration from overseas to create dissent when dissent was never warranted.

    It amazes me why nobody ever looks beyond the screaming headlines to try and get to the bottom of what it's all about. It amazes me that even when those behind this mess get forced out of the woodwork in desperation that their plans for power appear to be in jeopardy and try to force through an even worse disaster, the nation isn't calling for them to be hung for treason.

    It also amazes me how quickly it's been possible to convince those of low intellect that voting for the future of Britain, is akin to voting in a reality TV programme.
     
  13. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    Not directly relevant, but I was reminded today of the triumph of the 2012 London Olympics. A fantastic spectacle, thousands of volunteers working together, packed venues wherever events took place, the Paralympics reaching new heights of support and interest, and many British victories and PBs. A real feel good feeling across the nation.

    6 years later - a splintered nation, polarised opinions, hate crimes on the rise, knife crimes rampant, anger fuelled and stoked.

    What happened? :(:(
     
  14. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    The other 26 want a deal. The over-riding consideration will be for the 27 to appear undivided, and therefore the diplomats will indeed work hard to help Spain understand why it is mistaken (as they did for Wallonia not so long ago).
     
    Crowbob likes this.
  15. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    Tory government
     
  16. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    That really isn't true. Even Tony Blair said in 2004 that the UK's membership of the EU would have to be debated and then the question of continued membership put to the people. Opinion polls have shown considerable dissatisfaction with the EU for many years. Back in 2010 it was 47% Leave and 33% Remain.

    The key event in 2015 was UKIP, a party dedicated to taking the UK out of the EU, coming third in the general election, gaining more votes that the Lib Dems, Scottish Nats, Greens or any party other than Labour or Conservative. While the vagaries of FPTP gave them only one seat, it is in the nature of the FPTP that a tipping point occurs where, if UKIP were to do much better in a future election, they would likely gain 80 or more seats (the number they would have got under PR in 2015). Considering the damage the DUP can do with 10 seats, think what could be done by a party holding the balance with 80.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
    artboyusa likes this.
  17. Brunel

    Brunel Lead commenter

    You’re right and the whole issue may disappear like mist on a summer’s morning. However, there are three main problems which either separately or together may prove tricky to resolve: firstly, technically Spain’s concerns are justified (though whether they’re important is another matter). Secondly, with important regional elections coming up in Spain next month the Spanish government will look foolish if it just rolls over without getting changes to the text of the agreement. But, (thirdly) while any changes to the text may not amount to anything very important, if May is seen to be weak on this issue it gives extra ammunition to her critics (not that they’re short of ammunition already). She can’t be seen to be giving an inch. This may not be an easy issue to resolve.
     
  18. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    I think parliament will do all it can and more to avoid asking the people. The most acceptable vote -May's deal or no deal - will not be allowed out of fear of it being no deal.

    Remain or leave not allowed for same reason, we may very well vote leave again.
     
  19. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    With all due respect, florian, you are talking about the rise in support for UKIP, rather than anything specific the EU did. Support for UKIP has more to do with the British government's austerity policies, coupled with anti-EU media campaigning.

    I've said on numerous occasions that the electorate should have been better educated about the EU and the consequences of leaving, before the referendum took place. Had a decision been taken to have the referendum that was promised, but to have it take place after a few years of informative discussion, this story would have emerged to show those who never understood what UKIP is really about, the reality. https://news.sky.com/story/tommy-robinson-becomes-adviser-to-ukip-leader-gerard-batten-11560682
     
    eljefeb90 and kibosh like this.
  20. keyboard2

    keyboard2 Established commenter

    The deal won't get through parliament.

    The DUP have bug*ered off, the Tory back bench openly revolting, Labour will sniff the political opportunism.

    It's not going to happen.
     

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