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The big tissue of lies around behaviour.

Discussion in 'Behaviour' started by teacherish, Oct 25, 2006.

  1. Increasingly i am of the opinion that many of the students who behave badly and work poorly and are given various reasons to excuse that behaviour (autism, ADHD.....and so on) often their problem is poor manners, laziness and poor upbringing.

    We are creating school sytems (and then a society) where no students take responsibility for personal weakness, but have teams of people (LEA, Ed Psych, EWO...) conjuring excuses to justify their behaviour. In my opinion if a child answer back it is because thay made the decision to do so, if a child truantss, that is their choice, if a child swears, shouts, threatens a teacher they have made that persoanl decisions and not seek excuses but take and result of the chin.

    Im a 24 year old teacher. When I was at school I took responsiblity for everything that went wrong. I did not say "I had a bad morning", "That teacher doesn't like me", "When are you going to tell him off" - I, and my schoolmates took it on the chin. Now students in school will make any excuse rather that take responsibilty themselves.

    And many of those excuses are cooked up, "liberal" driven excrement.

    The lack of responsibility and resulting sanction in schools and then society is damaging the UK more than any one thing.

    Is this just me ranting or do peiople agree!
     
  2. Increasingly i am of the opinion that many of the students who behave badly and work poorly and are given various reasons to excuse that behaviour (autism, ADHD.....and so on) often their problem is poor manners, laziness and poor upbringing.

    We are creating school sytems (and then a society) where no students take responsibility for personal weakness, but have teams of people (LEA, Ed Psych, EWO...) conjuring excuses to justify their behaviour. In my opinion if a child answer back it is because thay made the decision to do so, if a child truantss, that is their choice, if a child swears, shouts, threatens a teacher they have made that persoanl decisions and not seek excuses but take and result of the chin.

    Im a 24 year old teacher. When I was at school I took responsiblity for everything that went wrong. I did not say "I had a bad morning", "That teacher doesn't like me", "When are you going to tell him off" - I, and my schoolmates took it on the chin. Now students in school will make any excuse rather that take responsibilty themselves.

    And many of those excuses are cooked up, "liberal" driven excrement.

    The lack of responsibility and resulting sanction in schools and then society is damaging the UK more than any one thing.

    Is this just me ranting or do peiople agree!
     
  3. Yes I agree.
     
  4. I agree in parts, particularly about kids generally taking responsibility but equally there are many students who do have adhd, aspergers or whatever who don't conform to what a school thinks is "normal". Perhaps one of the differences is that when you were at school there were actually more special schools, so you didn't come across these students as much. Plus there has been a massive increase in autism in recent years. Also it's fine for us to talk about using upbringing as an excuse but we didn't have to live in a single parent family with a heroin addicted mother. It would probably have affected our behaviour as kids!
     
  5. Oh yes, I agree.

    There is one particular pupil in one of my classes who is a very clever pupil, and I swear this pupil uses their diagnosis of quite a few different learning difficulties to basically sit and do nothing, disrupting other pupils, and generally act exactly how they feel whenever they want. It drives me up the wall, because I feel that our school has created a culture in which the pupils know that teachers are not going to ask them to tuck their shirts in, or stop talking, if it means they might storm out of the lesson and disappear off site. I find this very difficult to deal with - I hate having one rule for one pupil and another rule for another - I understand that sometimes you have to be sympathetic to individual circumstances, but now the pupils know their 'rights' and what they can get away with, it causes no end of trouble.

    One of my particular pet hates! (I'm 23, by the way, and I am shocked at how much 11-16 behaviour has deteriorated since I was at school - and that really wasn't that long ago.)
     
  6. me too - 23 and shocked!
     
  7. eha

    eha

    I'm so pleased that 23 yr-olds are shocked by the behaviour of kids today; that's the only hope for the future--- no-one is going to listen to old fogeys who've been going on about deteriorating standards for the last thirty years. For God's sake, where did you think it was going to end? And I have a question for the 23 yr-olds: when you were at school, even though you were the good guys, were you aware of the bad guys--- kids who disrupted, disturbed, psychologically harassed teachers, and interfered with the learning of other students? It was going on, even if it wasn't as appalling as it is today. Did you snigger at low-level disruption; did you tell the truth about what you saw, or shuffle your feet and look shifty if a teacher asked for witnesses? Did you see other teachers backing off from a colleague who tried to report such stuff, isolating and making him/her look like an out-of-date old kill-joy who wanted to bring back the rod?
    Well, did you? This stuff isn't new, you know; it's the direct outcome of all the idiocy that's resulted from the misunderstanding and misapplication of what somebody up there called 'liberal excrement'. Liberal ideas are all very well; but they should only be applied by those who are doing the job---if at all; not by politicians and (un)civil servants who don't have to live with the results of their stupidity.
     
  8. I'm a 24 year old Ta and I'm shocked at the behaviour in schools too.

    I also think that while some children genuinely have SEN such as Aspergers, ADHD etc. (let's face it, I wouldn't have a job if they didn't). I agree that some children who apparently have these problems don't!

    I went to a rough school and I never saw behaviour as bad as I do now. What really worries me is the inability of these kids to take responsibility for their own actions. I also despair at the lack of proper sanctions that can be given to kids that step out of line.
     
  9. The biggest problem IMO is the fact that if kids don't behave it's the teacher's fault. I've been teaching 7 years and had a hellish Y11 group when I first started, some of whom could now be 22. I'm not convinced behaviour is worse than then to be honest.
     
  10. I'm often horrified when I read what other teachers have to put up with and I think these kids need a very big reality check.
    What kind of people do they think they will be as adults if that's how they behave now?
     
  11. well i put the original post....

    I do agree that some kids have real problems - but so many - the majority - are rude, offensive and workshy as they have made that choice - they have power over that.

    Teacher's need real sanctions. They need the right to refuse to teach students if they are to much of a problem.

    If the inclusion of one is to the exclusion of the many then that is daft. hands up who teaches a class where the inclusion of one students is seriously damaging to the learning experince of the many - that is madness.
     
  12. A question - how do you actually work with, I quote the "teams of people (LEA, Ed Psych, EWO...) conjuring excuses to justify their behaviour"?
     
  13. I generally ignore them... not sure what else to do.

    As far as when I was at school - actually I wasn't one of the 'good ones', although there were many worse than me - it absolutely did go on then too, but anyone in my school (pretty average comprehensive in a not very nice area) wouldn't dream of swearing at a teacher, in fact the particular case I remember it was permanent exclusion. Kids get one day exclusion for that in my school. Standards have most definately got worse, although perhaps just extensions of an original problem, but I reckon society has an awful lot to answer for in its contribution to it - for example there is less and less emphasis on the importance of a stable family environment, and more and more emphasis on each individual for itself. Now I sound old, but that's what I think!
     
  14. ps - in reply to the question above - a couple of weeks ago I asked a pupil to tuck in his shirt. A cover supervisor walked past at the same time, and said, loudly, something along the lines of 'No, don't worry about your shirt, I'm sure Miss would rather you stayed in school... wouldn't you, Miss.' I didn't know what to do!
     
  15. A second question - why do you ignore these professionals? Have you actually considered that working with (rather than ignoring) said professionals might be of use? How are you involved in the work of say an Ed Psych or an EWO?

    Do you actually know what is they are trying to do? Have you considered that they might be working to support the school as well as the child - it's actually incredibly simplistic to assume they are just working for the good of the child - after all, what help is that, if teacher just wants them excluded at the end of the day (also where do teachers think these kids go when they are excluded - often they're just moved to the next school - perhaps yours - where they carry even more baggage around with them...)

    I think if you worked with these professionals you might actually find that (unbelievable as this might sound...) that working on young people taking appropriate responsibility for actions is a big part of their work.

    There appears to be an assumption being made that people like Ed Psychs (who have actually been teachers themselves) and other education professionals have never stepped foot in a classroom!

    Working with young people with challenging behaviours is very stressful and demanding, so it may be useful to draw on support where it is offered and also question your own whole school systems. As one of the above professionals I'd much rather work with staff than against them, as I'm not so thick as to assume that working any other way, would be of use!

    Rather than blatantly ignoring such professionals, why not take some responsibility to find out about the work they do and how to use it to your own advantage.
     
  16. The I work with them depends on the individual - however the greater experience is that these people can do anything but find the students responsible and make moves toward sanction.

    There are excellent people in this job but many of them are flowing skirt wearing, sandal adorned, open necked, tree hugging empty souls of people who are about in touch with reality as Luke Sky Walker.

    But not all
     
  17. As i said - if the inclusion of one is more damaging to the remainder of the class than it is beneficial to the individual they should not be there.

    As i said - there are kids with serious problems - but there are kids who never step out of line whose futures are being wrecked by indivdual who are nothing more that unpleasant, arrogant people.
     
  18. I don't mean to insult many TA's - I just wish that they would actually turn up in my classroom! I teach music and have never, ever, seen a TA in my room, not even for the lowest ability sets, some of whom can't write their own names. So I never even get to see them in practice. Otherwise I might be able to talk to them about how I could work with them in my subject - sorry to sound so pessimistic - as a relatively new teacher I would probably have a different view if I had a more positive experience of working with TAs and the SENCO, who every teacher in the school seems to agree is a waste of time (this is their words, not mine). I must admit I feel very ashamed of my negative attitude, and BBKF is right, they are professionals and probably have a lot of advice that I would find helpful.
     
  19. Ah don't be like that 'teacherish' - I have got spanking dress sense (last post " flowing skirt wearing, sandal adorned, open necked, tree hugging empty souls of people who are about in touch with reality as Luke Sky Walker"), with a nice line in accessories too.

    PS I do own several pairs of Birkenstocks - which I guess qualify as sandals, although mine are red patent ones...

    Anyway I fear I am digressing, so I'll leave you continue your comments.


     
  20. Not really shocked about behaviour, but appalled and shocked by these OTT, politically correct positive behaviour strategies. What a pile of ****e- the kids know they have the upperhand and can do what they like. Until we go back to basic discipline we will not improve behaviour in schools. No, Im not an old dodder-26 in fact. I even felt bad for saying discipline policy the other day in a meeting- if looks could kill from SMT! Its behaviour policy- silly.
     

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