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The 3:30pm myth

Discussion in 'Personal' started by lanokia, Mar 16, 2016.

  1. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    I see the media, from newspaper headlines to the TV news, is trotting out the tired old myth that schools finish working at 3:30. This is described as 'Victorian' implying modernisation is needed... yet all it doe sit serve the purposes of government in demanding yet more from schools.

    1. Schools do NOT finish at 3:30. They do not start at 9am. Every school I've worked in has had a breakfast club, feeding pupils who don't get meals at home. The libraries and ICT facilities are open first thing from 8am with kids doing their homework or catching up on missed work. After school so many activities are going on, from drama clubs/productions, sporting fixtures, library sessions and ICT catch ups, revision sessions for year 11 and 6th form. These can keep staff working from 8am to 5pm. Staff who aren't working with pupils will be in performance management meetings, year group meetings, department meetings, SLT planning meetings, engaged in CPD or online courses.

    2. Then you have the work taken home. The marking, the planning, the controlled assessment that needs marking, then moderating.

    3. When schools stay open longer, offering a great range of extra-curricular activities [which won't be extra-curricular but will be just curricular] then this saps time from pupils which would have been spent in the private sector. So the piano lessons are dropped because of time, the dance classes, the children's drama workshop at the local theatre because the school is demanding kids do extra-curricular with them for fear of Ofsted. This destroys the small local enterprise who work with young people through choice.

    4. The government is putting extra money forward, bandying figures around in the billions, but once this money dries up those activities will still be expected to go on and on... just without the funding.

    The Junior Doctors went on strike when the government tried this cr.ap with them... I doubt teachers will. They'll just work longer, doing yet more stuff, more data keeping, more evidencing... and more and more of them will leave, realising you can't balance the job and a family anymore... and knowing which is easily the more valuable to your health and well being.
    wanet, delnon, phlogiston and 10 others like this.
  2. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    I could have gone on longer with this one... the schemes of work that need incessantly rewriting because they are 'living documents'... can we strangle them then please?
    Dragonlady30 likes this.
  3. foxtail3

    foxtail3 Star commenter

    I was reading a thread on another site that had many parents bemoaning the possibility of a longer school day because of some of the things you mention @lanokia. Swimming, ballet, gym lessons etc. Plus time that parents can spend with their children. So, it seems as though not all parents will welcome this plan, leaving aside all the other constraints you so rightly mention.
  4. sabrinakat

    sabrinakat Star commenter

    And if we teachers are forced to stay later, then it has a knock-on effect in that OUR childcare costs would increase, don't see getting a pay rise to pay that....

    PS. Our school day is 8.30 to 4.30 (indie school)
    Dragonlady30 likes this.
  5. HelenREMfan

    HelenREMfan Star commenter

    When oh when will people learn to ignore all the nonsense that these people come out with?
    So all those years of sports' practices after school, interform competitions, clubs etc were figment of my imagination then? Holding meetings with parents at 8am because oddly enough so many could take their kids out of school for hair appointments etc but they could never make a meeting in my working/paid time never happened either then?
    I am quite surprised they haven't included school holiday activities - oh wait..... we so often already do them. I remember drama practices taking place then to get the cast ready for productions and GCSE revision/catch up sessions.
    Dragonlady30 and wanet like this.
  6. ValentinoRossi

    ValentinoRossi Star commenter

    I frequently think of FOFO in respect of students. Anyone who believes that schools "finish" at 3.30 should also FOFO.
    Dragonlady30, delnon and Flere-Imsaho like this.
  7. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    What's FOFO?

    According to the internet it means forty four calibre gun.
  8. ValentinoRossi

    ValentinoRossi Star commenter

    Er... It's *** off and find out :rolleyes:
  9. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Ah thanks... haha
    ValentinoRossi likes this.
  10. Caligraphy

    Caligraphy Occasional commenter

    Teachers won't band together and say no because there are still enough of them who buy into the myth that if they 'step up' and 'go the extra mile' they will further their career quicker than they are experienced to handle. They will also be the ones that continue to offer the 'enrichment' classes for nothing once the funding dries up, as Lanokia so rightly pointed out, it will.
    In addition to that, the unions will do very little. There are too many different ones all singing from their own hymn sheet. And I am 100% unionised!
  11. indusant

    indusant Senior commenter

    The day definitely doesn't end at 3:30pm for teachers. That is just the tip of the iceberg. The end of the school day is actually the start of another day's work. When else can all the marking, planning, extraneous admin tasks etc be done?

    It's all about 'raising standards', of course. But standards can not improve when teachers are increasingly knackered as they are being forced to spin too many plates at once. How will teachers do the extra classes, all the paperwork and still have any semblance of a work-life balance? They won't. Something got to give.

    If the government really wanted to raise standards, they would make sure that schools invest in fully qualified teachers and retain those with experience. As it is, it seems they are set on making the job completely unattractive, impossible and untenable.
  12. Caligraphy

    Caligraphy Occasional commenter

    I totally agree. In addition to increasing the length of the school day (apparently only for a small % of secondary schools) the government are continuing their march to making all schools academies. When they do this, we run the risk of children being increasingly taught by unqualified staff. I am reluctant to call them teachers, because they're not. How can standards be raised when staff are not qualified.
    wanet, delnon and cissy3 like this.
  13. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    Is it not time that the advertising standards "legal, decent, honest and truthful" applied to politicians?
    Caligraphy likes this.
  14. Caligraphy

    Caligraphy Occasional commenter

    They would able to ensure" legal", but "decent", "honest" and "truthful" when applied to politicians will be much more difficult.;)
  15. emerald52

    emerald52 Star commenter

    FOFO...the lesson plan for research! Shame government don't do it before they launch their next instalment of the permanent revolution that is education policy.
  16. Spiritwalkerness

    Spiritwalkerness Star commenter

    Every Child Matters - unless it's a teacher's child
  17. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    I think we have to accept that the non teaching public will never accept that teaching is a long hours job. They will always (and let's be fair, with good reason) be envious of our holidays and yes, they will always believe that once the kids leave at 3:30 then that's it, we cannot be under any real pressure then.

    Probably the most fitting riposte I ever heard was when a parent said to me, after I pointed out the paperwork demands:

    "Ah come on, that's just papers and box ticking, it can't take long and who gives a damn about that?'

    It is so true and I honestly feel teachers should rebel, find a really quick and simple marking scheme, drop staff meetings (emails only) and leave every day at 4pm latest.

    Even now, with all the work (and it is questionable how effective it is) we are disrespected and seen as lazy, on a good deal with the holidays and generally hopeless.

    So why not stop killing ourselves, cut back on the extra hours which serve no purpose beyond exhausting us, and enjoy being teachers again - we will still be told we are lazy, ineffective etc......
    cissy3 likes this.
  18. scienceteachasghost

    scienceteachasghost Lead commenter

    Substituting the 'p' for an 'a' is not inaccurate for some teachers!
  19. cally1980

    cally1980 Established commenter

    The reason teachers are not taken seriously is that we cannot seem to unite. There are too many people who are unwilling to strike for reasons varying from the effect it has on the children, to fear of their own SLT, to trying to look good for their own development etc etc. Added to this is the fact that we have several unions that only sometimes coordinate, and often the message they send out is the wrong one. Already I saw an NUT guy on twitter talking about an increase in pay disputes if all schools are academised - sending the message that our objections are purely financial. That is what the public will hear and believe whereas every teacher I know has GENUINE concerns for education that are nothing to do with their own pay.
    cissy3 likes this.
  20. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Disgusting language for a teachers' forum.
    sabrinakat and ValentinoRossi like this.

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