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‘That thing gnawing away at all of us’: Calais and the shantytown on its doorstep

Discussion in 'Personal' started by FrankWolley, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

  2. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    Does it really matter if it's happening in Calais or Dover? The scandal is that we have a shanty town of refugees living in appalling conditions not that it might move a few miles in the event of the EU referendum.
     
  3. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter


    Matters to us in the south east, I'd suggest...

    And perhaps to the GB taxpayer in general?
     
  4. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    Indeed

    Not necessarily.
    I'm pretty sure that France realises that illegal migrants to England on ferries would then be smartly returned to France as their boarding port.
    And no, claiming asylum status would not prevent that happening because such claims could and should under international law be made in the first "safe country."
    France could legitimately insist that migrants leave France by the method by which they entered
     
    theworm123 likes this.
  5. EllisCarver

    EllisCarver Established commenter

    Refugees?
     
  6. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    Refugees who just want safety and protection...but of course in a country of their choosing with appropriate economic benefits.

    There are systems in place to help refugees whose lives are in danger in their home country. The reason these people aren't reaping the benefits of refugee status is that they're not refugees, they're economic migrants. Why are the French tax payers liable for ensuring people who have illegally entered their country are provided with certain standards of living?
     
  7. Burton_Flump

    Burton_Flump New commenter

    Surely because first and foremost we are all human beings?
     
  8. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    So if you get home one day to find me in your house demanding to stay there you'd probably just help me out?

    Moving everyone in non-developed countries to developed countries isn't a solution.
     
  9. Burton_Flump

    Burton_Flump New commenter

    Well that's silly, I'm a person, France is a country not a person. France the country itself isn't going to be offended if they find someone using their loo.

    We all have a duty to look after other people who are struggling in life, rather than not help them because they "illegal entered the country"
     
  10. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    France is a collection of people who pay taxes to make France what it is. French land is private property in the way that it is owned by the citizens of France.

    Yes, we do have a moral duty to help people, but moving everyone in to the country with the highest living standards isn't going to magically make everyone's living standards amazing.

    I'm not talking here about people who are in danger in their homes, I'm talking about people who want to live their country and to to Germany / France / UK because the standard of living is better. Aside from drought and natural disaster, the only thing that makes one standard of living high and one low is the people. Humans are the problem, not the ground or the air or the animals or plants. They need cultural and sociopolitical changes, not mass movement of humans
     
  11. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter


    If you really thin k that leaving the EU won't lead to more illegal immigrants ending up in the UK, then you are very - perhaps dangerously - naive.
     
    wanet likes this.
  12. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    There are too many variables to determine what either Brexit or continuing membership will mean in terms of "illegal" migration. Nobody from either side has yet (nor can they) produce definitive data on that subject
     
    delnon likes this.
  13. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    What upsets me is the pretense they are refugees...most are migrant workers seeking to earn money.They chose to ignore the EU rules about claiming asylum and instead insist we should take them in because they want to be here,for money or family.Strange how we as a nation are chastised for not letting illegal occupants of a camp and law breakers into our country because it embarrasses France> genuine folks fleeing would be grateful whatever land they find themselves in and not be insistent that we 'must' let them in.
    Yes I understand the reasons why they want to be here, be it historical attachment or the legend we are generous land where they will be helped....or can disappear into a community if truly illegal. yet the problem remains they do not have a right to come and if arriving illegal then should be treated with more contempt and sent back.I find the fact that parents in one land send their children alone to such places disgraceful and although my heart goes to the young children alone in such places and all the exploitation they suffer i still think it wrong.
    Once you make exceptions for one then you must consider the rest.as teachers that lessons has always been the hard thing to learn.
     
    wanet and T0nyGT like this.
  14. artboyusa

    artboyusa Star commenter

    'A duty'? Really? I wasn't asked if I was prepared to assume this 'duty'. Nor was anyone else. If you wish to assume it, fine. Me, I'll stick with the idea that a country exists for the benefit of those who were born there or were legally admitted, and not for random foreigners who arrive uninvited, demanding admission.
     
    oldsomeman and wanet like this.
  15. Burton_Flump

    Burton_Flump New commenter

    A moral duty rather than one that has been assigned obviously.

    It's a difficult situation and no one is particularly right or wrong but if i was in their situation i'm damn sure that i'd be doing the same thing
     
  16. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Is that an extended revision of the Lovecraft story?


    [​IMG]
     
    lanokia likes this.
  17. artboyusa

    artboyusa Star commenter

    Okay. But the problem is that when most people say 'we' they mean 'you'. Angela Merkel, for example, can admit a million+ 'refugees' because it gets her on the cover of TIME as Europe's 'conscience'. Doing it won't make any difference to her. She won't be living among them. She has armed guards. She is rich. Other Germans, they can suck it up because Merkel assumed a moral duty on their behalf.
     
  18. jacob

    jacob Lead commenter

    Why would that affect us? They are supposed to settle in the first country they get to. I haven't noticed refugee boats bumping up the beaches of England. And, don't let 'em on the Ferry at Dover. *simples.
     
  19. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    Oh, I see.
    Refugees only matter if they're within the town boundary or you have to pay for them. How silly of me to think otherwise.
     
  20. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    There have been a few who tried to cross the Channel in rubber dinghies I believe...however once picked up they go to a camp and eventually are allowed to stay and not turned away. So they have won.
     

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