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That "Teams" advert showing teaching on teams

Discussion in 'Staff, pupil & parent's wellbeing' started by Corvuscorax, May 31, 2020.

  1. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    I don't know where to start!

    As if you could have children unmuted speaking out when they felt like it

    As if you could have children on camera, lying on their beds.

    As if you could see a child's work through the camera in teams meeting.

    As if you could expect children to have those resources at hand to produce "maths games"

    As if you could run a class with 3 children - you only need one to be late and one to have an internet glitch and you are unchaperoned with a single child.

    As if you could move between screen shares and showing your face without dropping out, or pausing for 5 minutes to reload.

    As if you can write sums out through a visualiser and be anything like that clear.

    And where are all the parents? supervising? so does that mean all those children are in full view of hoards of random adults, with criminal convictions, or anything? or not supervising - really? And if they are there, how come none of them have interrupted to have a word with the teacher, as so many parents seem to think is their right?

    And most of all, where are the hackers and the ****?

    Totally unrealistic. And likely to get the teacher disciplined.

    Whoever designed that Teams advert clearly knows nothing at all about teaching.
    BetterNow and agathamorse like this.
  2. CabbageWhite20

    CabbageWhite20 Occasional commenter

    I’ve not seen the advert you are talking about.
    I teach middle school age in an independent school and have been teaching a full live timetable using Teams since lockdown began. Our school safeguarding policies have allowed this, and many other independent schools at least are doing the same.
    I can’t answer all of your points but:
    ~ I often do have all of the children unmuted. They quickly learn that if they all speak no one is heard. Sometimes I mute them all or ask them to mute themselves, but that’s usually so we don’t have the distraction of background noise. The biggest group I’ve had is 38, usually it’s about 20 though. It’s just about classroom management, but in a different format.
    ~ You actually can see their work on camera, but it’s better if they write directly into Teams (where you can see them working in real time and provide real time feedback) or upload a document/photo of written work afterwards.
    ~ If they need resources you tell them, and their parents, in advance. I never ask mine to have more than a pen and paper but I know some teachers do.
    ~ Switching between screen share and showing your video is instant. I have ordinary BT Wi-fi, often 3 people video conferencing in the house at once, and it’s fine. I was surprised by that too.
    ~ some people use a visualiser, or use a tablet or phone as a visualiser but there is a whiteboard within Teams which works perfectly well.
    ~ Most parents are working too. Some are nearby, but not many have that luxury. I’ve never been interrupted by a parent while I was teaching.
    ~Teams is secure - you can only access it with your login (which requires a school email address with your domain name). I have never heard any concerns about security (it is not like Zoom where if you continually use the same meeting ID it is easily compromised).
    ~ Your concern about kids in bedrooms/1:1 video sessions are very valid I think. Schools try and put policies in place, but because this is crisis teaching many parents do have children online in their bedrooms because the whole house is video conferencing at once and that’s where the computers are. I keep my kids in the room with me, but that’s easy because they are on laptops (it is loud though even with headsets so not ideal). Our policy is to record live lessons (partly so pupils on different time zones can catch up afterwards) and all 1:1 sessions such as music lessons for safeguarding reasons.

    I’d not say it’s ideal, but it’s definitely doable. There are concerns, but there are also advantages - the pupils I teach have had live teaching, live feedback and that personal teacher/pupil connection. It’s not comparable with being in school but we are doing our best.
  3. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Like @CabbageWhite20 we have been using Teams since lockdown and are doing pretty much all the things you claim are impossible.
    We've not had children lying on their beds to access live lessons, but we have done everything else.
    Our parents use the chat feature to communicate with us, so they can write something in the middle of a lesson if they so wish, but we won't answer until we are free to do so.
    We also record all lessons and 1:1 sessions to allow catch up for those abroad (very few) or who can't make the lesson (almost none) and for safeguarding protection for staff.

    No problems so far.
  4. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    I'm not saying it isn't doable to teach through teams, I am just saying that advert is completely unrealistic and likely to get any teacher into serious trouble who works like that.

    As to the myth that teams is secure, no, it is only as secure as the people using it. And we get hackers and prawn displayed through it during lessons

    it your bandwidth allows switching between different views, use of the whiteboard, students writing directly into teams, etc, great, very few of us have that.

    Same for parents, if they don't interrupt you ,great. but where are they? how do you know they are not filming your lesson and all the other children in it?
    agathamorse likes this.
  5. CabbageWhite20

    CabbageWhite20 Occasional commenter

    I’ve yet to have any problems, nor have the numerous other teachers I know using either Teams or Google Classroom. I am very sorry to hear you have had hackers and prawn displayed during your lessons. I think this is unusual, I have not seen any shellfish at all.
  6. CabbageWhite20

    CabbageWhite20 Occasional commenter

    Seriously though - on the bandwidth front, you know it doesn’t work like that, don’t you? Your question makes me wonder if you have any experience of what you are describing.

    Where are the parents? Often visible in the background at another computer trying to keep their own jobs going in the midst of a global pandemic while the economy crashes. Other times - I’ve no idea. They don’t need to bother filming me, I film all of my lessons myself and upload them so children who cannot participate live can join in later.

    I can understand that some people are not happy with teaching in this way, but peddling misinformation isn’t very...teacherly. If you have evidence of the issues you are describing please share it. If not, why not simply say you don’t like/feel comfortable with live online teaching? That’s perfectly acceptable and a lot of people would probably agree with you.
  7. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    so presumably no student participation what so ever, as you cannot include children in your filming, can you

    so I keep being told, by people like you, and yet Teams itself tells me the limitations, drop outs and snags are all down to inadequate bandwith.

    I have just shared my experience with all these issues.

    I have noticed more and more on TES, that people who don't like what you are telling them, or if you are telling them something outside their own experience, they simply deny it, as if they know better than you what is going on in your life.
    agathamorse and BetterNow like this.
  8. CabbageWhite20

    CabbageWhite20 Occasional commenter

    So you are using Teams? In that case I am very sorry you have experienced so many difficulties.

    One final point - yes, constant student participation and yes, our school’s policies permit that to be recorded. In fact our policy is that lessons are to be recorded.

    Your final point about some people denying the validity of experience outside their own - I couldn’t agree more.
  9. CabbageWhite20

    CabbageWhite20 Occasional commenter

    Actually though Corvuscorax, as a fellow Teams user, may I ask your advice on something?
    When you set assignments using Teams how have you found it best to make PDF resources editable by students?
  10. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    Yes it isn't ideal, but there's no need for this kind of fantasising about possible problems. Unchaperoned with a single child? You're not "actually" in their room alone with the, you know! What sort of world do you live in?

    And it's hordes, not hoards, of your imaginary "random adults with criminal convictions" for heaven's sake!
  11. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    It's the usual posting content of this poster.

    Why on earth not? We film them all the time to put on FB and the school website. Recording a lesson that no one outside the class will ever bother to watch, with a banner at the top telling them and their parent that the meeting is being recorded, is hardly a problem.
    No you haven't just told everyone that what is in the Teams advert will get teachers disciplined, even though hundreds are doing precisely what is there all the time.
    Jonntyboy likes this.
  12. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    No fantasising required, I have listed genuine, real world problems

    what sort of world do I live in? Education - which you clearly don't if you are under the impression that being in a one to one video chat with child, unchaperoned, is legal, safe , professional or not likely to get you sacked.

    Seriously, if you are doing, or have done this, stop it now, and contact your union immediately and explain what you have done. You need legal advice.

    so what? How pathetic
  13. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    Sorry, but that's just silly. There are numerous times when this happens, for all kinds of reasons. It is only in the world of a few very hysterical people that there is anything wrong - the sort of people who see exaggerated risks behind every situation and live their lives as if every kid is against them and every situation is fraught with deadly risk.

    Whilst one doesn't deliberately set out to be alone with any kid, if it happens in real life - as it does with me and most teachers I work with least several times a week - one ensures the door is open. Otherwise, how do you work with the kids?

    Most teachers are not perverts, you know, and most kids will not falsely accuse. I suggest you re-read the post above from @caterpillartobutterfly

    So you should know the difference between horde and hoard. Sorry, but it's that simple. I teach languages and though I can ignore typos - we all make them - regretfully I sometimes can't stop myself from correcting basic linguistic errors that I'm surprised to see. But I don't wish to offend. I'm always grateful to be put right if I make such an error when using another language.
  14. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    You shouldn't let it happen

    basic safe guarding requires you to take fundamental precautions, it doesn't matter if you consider it hysterical, or not it is not up to you, it is basic professional standards.

    exactly, if it is in real life you leave the door open and ensure there are colleagues in earshot. On teams there are no such safeguards.

    but many perverts are attracted into teaching

    but some will, and you stand to lose your job, your career, your home, your friends and possibly your liberty.
    agathamorse likes this.
  15. Dorsetdreams

    Dorsetdreams Occasional commenter

    RE: recording Teams meetings
    We have strong policies/procedures in school about taking and/or publishing photos and many of our parents have opted out, especially those of Asian daughters. Yet we are now required to record all our Teams lessons, for 'safeguarding'. My concerns are:
    (1) If our management don't trust us to behave appropriately they shouldn't be letting us near Teams
    (2) Students who miss the lesson have done just that - like in school
    (3) Many students (or their parents) don't want to be recorded and therefore avoid the lesson
    (4) A recording opens us up to all sorts of criticism which we wouldn't normally have to suffer
    (5) I have no idea how this fits with GDPR
    (6) I have avoided having my teaching recorded for 35 years and I don't want to start now. It isn't a confidence thing - I'm perfectly happy with my teaching but I am not a performer and I don't want to be.​

    suzuki1690 and agathamorse like this.
  16. ACOYEAR8

    ACOYEAR8 Star commenter

    Bandwidth can often be an insurmountable problem and can result in the whole thing not working.
    I'd cite network issues and see what's said. I totally support your stance.
    agathamorse and Dorsetdreams like this.
  17. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    My concerns are:
    (1) If our management don't trust us to behave appropriately they shouldn't be letting us near Teams I don't think it is about management not trusting you, more about anyone could say anything and it would be difficult to prove without a recording.
    (2) Students who miss the lesson have done just that - like in school However in school they aren't juggling home life at the same time. Some of ours are abroad and in a different time zone.
    (3) Many students (or their parents) don't want to be recorded and therefore avoid the lesson We don't have this problem, almost all pupils log in to almost all lessons
    (4) A recording opens us up to all sorts of criticism which we wouldn't normally have to suffer Like what?
    (5) I have no idea how this fits with GDPR It doesn't because no one is sharing anyone else's data.
    (6) I have avoided having my teaching recorded for 35 years and I don't want to start now. It isn't a confidence thing - I'm perfectly happy with my teaching but I am not a performer and I don't want to be. No one will ever watch the lesson, unless it is a child in a different time zone or who has otherwise missed the lesson. Even then they'll probably skim it to get the general gist and then get on with the work.

    You could always 'forget' to record them...chances are no one will ever know.
  18. CabbageWhite20

    CabbageWhite20 Occasional commenter

    Is teaching online through Teams going to be a long term arrangement in your school or is it a ‘crisis teaching mid-pandemic until we can all be on site’ situation? If the latter then I’d go along with it (in fact I am). I don’t love it but these kids and their families have so much going on, if I can help them catch up I’m happy with that. The recording within the Team itself is only available for 7 days I think, so it really is just for people to catch up. After that kids can’t access it I don’t think and anyone in school who wants it would need to dig through Stream. I have to say I’ve never checked that so it might not be 100% accurate.

    If this is going to be a long term situation (years not months) then if you feel really strongly it might be worth fighting.

    I don’t love it but I don’t love anything about the current situation.
  19. Dorsetdreams

    Dorsetdreams Occasional commenter

    @caterpillartobutterfly , thank you for your detailed, thoughtful and delightfully colourful response. I feel a little rude in not responding in similar detail to your 'like what?' question. However, the more I think about this unheralded intrusion on my teaching practice the more I feel that it is unwarranted, unnecessary and undesirable.
    All the same, I am genuinely pleased that some have transitioned without demur. That has been my usual approach to change. Maybe I'm just getting too old.
  20. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Heyyyy now don't go saying things like that and ruining my reputation! :eek::D:eek:
    The reality has proved to be just fine, but that doesn't mean I didn't argue and sulk beforehand.
    agathamorse and Dorsetdreams like this.

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