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TEFL to international school - PGCEi in China or back home for PGCE

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by matthewsc430, May 31, 2018.

  1. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    The time of working in China without any formal teaching qualification will becoming to an end in the next couple of years, at the moment in China you need no teaching qualification for visa applications to work in a school as a teacher.

    Some of the information I have seen in the Chinese papers points towards teachers needing a qualification recognized in their home country. To obtain a visa as a teacher you may soon need to be able to teach in the state system of your own country. For the UK this would mean holding QTS, America would mean you are state registered and the equivalent for Australians and Canadians.

    Having QTS means there are a lot of people in front of me who will lose their jobs first! Having QTS and completed my NQT/Induction also means I can return to teach in England at any time if required.
    rouxx likes this.
  2. rouxx

    rouxx Lead commenter

    Very good point @february31st I revise my earlier advice about doing PGCEi in China - if you aren't adverse to going to the UK then it might be a good idea to do so.
  3. yasf

    yasf Occasional commenter

    Not a case of the country. If the school's admin decide that the UK equivalent of teacher certification is QTS (which it kind of is), that's what they'll ask for.

    The iPGCE will get you access to plenty of schools - but they'll be some that will only ever accept the proper PGCE + QTS.
    matthewsc430 likes this.
  4. rouxx

    rouxx Lead commenter

    Sent a pm @matthewsc430 I have some information regarding specific options in Shanghai.
  5. englishdragon

    englishdragon Occasional commenter

  6. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    I’m just in the process of graduating someone who has interrupted teaching in China to do his PGCE, gain QTS and he’s now back off to China all QTSd up.
    15k bursary next year could well be withdrawn the following year. This year they got £0. It’s a net payment over ten months so you won’t get a better offer elsewhere. I would certainly take the ten months off and complete it.
    Mr_Frosty likes this.
  7. matthewsc430

    matthewsc430 New commenter

    I've heard this stuff from time to time too. But it's not realistic. ESL teachers and more qualified/subject teachers are all on the same type of visa. The current visa requirements have already produced a huge shortage of native speakers. If all teachers, including the ESL majority, had to be home qualified, it would destroy the ESL industry. 99.5% of currently legal teachers would move on to other places. And they would be replaced by non-natives on student or business visas.

    Unless they're going to differentiate the visa requirements for international school and non-international school teachers. And make a home teaching qualification a requirement just for the former. I guess that could work, but I can't see anything so nuanced taking place any time soon.

    I'll look out for stories on this.
  8. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    Will all of the Filippino "English" teachers, who are going to be flooding into China in the near future, have PGCEs or PGCEi? Or neither? Or both?
    Mr_Frosty likes this.
  9. Mr_Frosty

    Mr_Frosty Occasional commenter

    The Fillippino teachers I've worked with here in the UAE have had Masters in Education and even PhDs. They've been some of the best teachers I've ever worked with. Of course some people will judge them based on their nationality but I think this kind of attitude should be discouraged.
    Capricorn2412 likes this.
  10. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    The Filipino teachers will all have degrees and or teaching qualification from the Philippines. As some have already mention Filipino teachers are good at the job in the classroom.

    As for the EFL jobs in China, there are 1000s of returning Chinese students who are qualified and able to do the job. Many of these Chinese students have been to American high school, University and know the English Language better the most so called western backpacking EFL teachers.

    It could be the relaxation of visa restrictions on Filipino teachers is some forward planning for the reduction in the number of westerners allowed into the country.

    The Chinese authorities will do what they think best for their nation without any consideration to how this impacts us western native English speaking teachers.
    yasf likes this.
  11. yasf

    yasf Occasional commenter

    I wonder how many will want to be EFL teachers though? I imagine that many will have much better job possibilities available.
  12. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    Even a basic EFL teacher working for a Mickey Mouse organization is paid 3000USD/Month. This is compared to a Chinese teacher in a Bilingual/Local stream school who will earn 1250USD/month.

    The economic sense of sending Chinese students to America to spend 200000USD on an education doesn't add up in most cases.
  13. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    Well, perhaps it does add up in some cases, february31st. For some Chinese girls, an American education might be quite a good way to get an American husband.

    If you were a wealthy Chinese parent, would it be cheaper (and better value for money) to send your son or daughter to college in the UK?
    yasf likes this.
  14. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    Not enough university places in tge UK to take large numbers of Chinese students. One Admissions officer I know at a Russell Group university says they get more chinese applications then students places for the next academic year.
  15. blueskydreaming

    blueskydreaming Lead commenter

    When I first came to China, nearly 11 years ago, there were loads of Filipinos teaching EFL. Then the Chinese government decided to get rid of the Filipinos, because some were taking ai yi jobs from the Chinese. Now the government needs the Filipinos again to teach EFL, maybe even iGCSE ESL. Swings and roundabouts.
  16. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    Your comment is insulting to female students and that's putting it politely!

    The female Chinese students I've taught are for the most part extremely academically able and hardworking. Their parents haven't spent a fortune on their education just so they can find a foreign husband. In fact, they are likely to be horrified if a relationship develops between their only child and some decadent Brit or Yank.
    yasf and Capricorn2412 like this.
  17. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    No, sparklesparkle. I did not write "all female students". I wrote "some Chinese girls". That is not the same thing.

    Quite a few Chinese people whom I have met in Shenzhen have been to America and have American friends. Some are married to Americans. I have also met lots of Chinese parents who think that British schools are better than Chinese ones. Therefore I think that you are mistaken, sparklesparkle, if you imagine that most Chinese people think that all Brits or all Americans are "decadent".

    How important is it for Chinese students to avoid the dreaded gao kao? This ghastly exam seems to be a lot worse than A levels or anything in the British system.
  18. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    But I didn't write 'all'... And you have missed the point.

    Your contention was that "For some Chinese girls, an American education might be quite a good way to get an American husband."

    You didn't write for "some Chinese students". You wrote "for some Chinese girls."

    Here we are in 2018 and some older male teachers still assume that girls are sent abroad not to gain postgraduate degrees but to trawl for a husband. My experience is that these students are too busy working all day and most of the night to look for husbands and they would find such a suggestion extremely demeaning. But hey ho.
    dumbbells66 and Capricorn2412 like this.
  19. WatchYourTongue

    WatchYourTongue New commenter

    My first, foreign teaching colleague, in China, back in 2006 was from the Philippines. She was an excellent teacher, I thought (and still do) as did my Chinese colleagues. I'm not sure what the parents thought, as they don't have the experience in classrooms to understand the effectiveness of a teacher isn't based solely on their background.
  20. WatchYourTongue

    WatchYourTongue New commenter

    That sounds like wishful thinking; where there's a shortage in labour the regulations are usually relaxed, if anything. Drastically reducing the supply of NETs would cause the cost of hiring to soar, pushing up school fees which I imagine middle class Chinese parents are already paying through the nose for.

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