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Teaching Psychology?

Discussion in 'Social sciences' started by nisreen110, Feb 4, 2008.

  1. Is it really true that I am not qualified to teach in the sixth-form of a state school?

    It is true that you are not *qualified* to teach in a school. For that you require QTS. It is not true that you cannot teach in a sixth form in a school - you can do that as an unqualified teacher.

    In fact nothing has really changed under the so called new rules. The reality is you can only be PAID as a qualified teacher if you have QTS, nothing to do with not being able to work in a school.

    The issue with sixth forms is cloudy. I dont know what will happen. At present you do not need QTS to work in a sixth form college it is " preferred" . That seems to be remaining the same after September too.

    It is going to be made evcen more cloudy by the incoming requirement for all new staff working in any post 16 setting ( school or FE) to have register with the IfL and be recognised as having QTLS. At the moment that doesnt apply. It only applies to a few from Septemeber but if it rolls out in full it will apply to all - teachers and lecturers by 2010.

    QTS will give you QTLS. Not necessarily the other way round as things stand.

  2. With QTS it is considered that you are trained to teach pupils not a subject - yet nearly all PGCE/Secondary courses train to a subject and students are trained according to their specialism in separate groups.

    On the other hand in FE where it is considered you teach a specialism, your teaching qualification is essentially generic as all teachers take the same course.

    Personally, whilst I would argue teaching skills are generic , it doesnt matter what you teach, the skills are essentially the same, I do not think it is wise or appropriate for a teacher to teaching a subject they know little or nothing about and whre they may be one page ahead of the students.
  3. Thanks *******. You've mroe or less written what I'd already thought-that I should stick to FE teaching after August, unless I can ask for a school contract that pays me on the unqualified scale and doesn't include payment for PPA and non-contact time and finishes when the students so the exams. In short, I'm stuffed right?

  4. oh and doesn't say anything about non-directed time. As I said, it sounds like I'm stuffed if I work in a school!
  5. You can get QTS with an assessment only route in Psychology. I did this last year.

    Some LAs require you to get QTS within 5 years of being employed on a permanent contract.
  6. Te issue of the " permanent contract" is another misnoma. I wonder how it can work in proactice since if you are given fte's over a period of two years in a post you are considered to have the same rights as a "permanent employee".

    There is nowhere where it actually requires you to have get QTS for that to happen. Hot having QTS does not affect your employment rights with regard to " permenance" of a contract.
  7. "unless I can ask for a school contract that pays me on the unqualified scale and doesn't include payment for PPA and non-contact time and finishes when the students so the exams. In short, I'm stuffed right?"

    You could still find yourself stuffed anyway. If your class were to be out on a jolly for a day you could be asked to cover because you are being paid to teach and you do not have a class.

    Further, you will find yourself doing duties. It goes with the territory in schools. Duty will mean policing the lower school kids.

    To be honest its not that bad. I have been working in schools since 1994. I lost my FE job in a round of redundancies following the incorporation of FE colleges and the change in regukations.

    I went to work in a school and its always a bit cloudy for the first year because schools are generally nice to you, especially if you are part time. It was in my second year od working there that I got my first taste of teaching lower school on cover.

    Ive been teaching tghem ever since , except for a couple of years when I returned to FE in 2000.

    On the whole teaching in a school sixth form is a good job. Decent pay, decent conditions ( more important I think than pay). Teaching lower school and duties, cover or otherwise is not such an issue. You must remember that as an FE teacher you are trained and recognised as a teacher of KS4 and 5 - that means kids over 14, whatever the inconsistencies in the rules about QTS.
  8. Thanks again *******. I'm pleased to hear from a fellow FE teacher that lower school cover is not so bad as I've been lead to believe so far (from the colleagues and students that I've spoken to at my current school). You're right about the QTS though, the head said exactly the same thing when she spoke about providing cover for the lower school and I asked whether I was qualified to do so without QTS-she said that as a 'responsible' adult' I was qualifed to 'supervise' any age group, even without QTS. Truth is, I just don't want to full stop, as I'm really not comfortable with dealing with students under 16, but for the time being, that and QTS status is something that I'll put to the back of my mind until August, as I may not even be at the school in September! Thanks very much for your advice everyone so far, especially ******* and Psycho about conversion progs, I've never heard of the assessment only Psychology prog before, so I'll look into that!

  9. Ditto what Lynsita says - thanks for all your advice.

    But I am still unsure as to the position of an FE (PCET trained) teacher in the sixth-form of a state school. This is a quote from the government teachernet website: "...this change will also mean that 31 August 2008 will be the last date that any teachers who are currently working without having passed their skills tests, and therefore without QTS, can be lawfully employed as teachers..." implying (as the Headteacher at the school that has told me not to apply seems to think) that it is illegal for me to teach at all within a school, but elsewhere on the website it says that "...to work lawfully as a qualified teacher in a maintained school or non-maintained special school, they need to have QTS..." which implies you CAN work in schools if you accept you are unqualified!

    Does anyone know, if I did the GTP would I absolutely have to teach under 16s as part of it?

    ANd what is the assessment-only-QTS option that you did, Psycho? Because when I was trying to find out about that, the only place that seems to do them (according to the TDA website) is the Uni of Glos but they have a subject list and psychology is not on it!

  10. I believe that Psychology has been reclassified as a science, so it would count, which is what I think psycho said in the post. The only thing that you can do is what I did, e-mail the uni with details of your experience etc and ask for more advice about the course and whether it's suitable for our circumstances. I can let you know what the uni replies if you like? I also believe but ******* seems to know more about this that teachers in our situation is a grey area. Some schools won't touch us with a barge pole, some will if we agree to get QTS and others like mine are happy to employ us on a long term supply basis and pay us as an unqualifed instructor or teacher trainee if they're feeling generous until either a secondary school teacher who branch out comes along or we decide to stop being FE teachers instead, so it seems to me that the application of the law is at the discretion of the school, rather like the CRB situation but don't start off on that, I've done my ranting and raving for the year! ;-)

  11. "...this change will also mean that 31 August 2008 will be the last date that any teachers who are currently working without having passed their skills tests, and therefore without QTS, can be lawfully employed as teachers...

    As I understand it very little has actually changed. The above applies to teachers who have recently ( or even not so recently) completed their PGCE but have not passed the ITT skills tests.

    It was possible to complete your PGCE ( with QTS) and work in a school as a qualified teacher almost forever without having passed the skills tests and it was also possible to work for five terms without completing your NQT induction. Further failure of NQT induction still left such an individual with their QTS recognition.

    It gave us the ludicrous ( alkmost as ludicrous as QTLS) where a teacher could be qualified but unable to teach in a school because they had failed their induction year or had not completed it in full. Many of these people went into FE.

    The same also applied to skills tests, since these could be taken as many times as you liked and not having them did not affect the award of QTS.

    Now in order to retain your QTS following completion of a recognised course/ programme you have to have taken and passed the ITT skills tests. Thats all the above means.

    If you have taken and completed a programme or course with QTS recognition you cannot work in a school unless you have passed your skills tests because QTS has been linked to skills tests.

    It does not in any way affect the situation of an unqualified teacher or that of HTLA's taking classes etc.

    In effect what it does mean is that if you are unqualified you dont actually have to complete anything. Once you start down the road of QTS you need to complete both the skills tests and your NQRT year to retain your qualified status.

    There is some suggestion that new entrants to ITT with QTS recognition will have to complete skills tests before they embark on their training. That has never been the case to date.
  12. I was in same position PGCE Post-16 but got full time post in secondary school.They paid me as qualified teacher-so must be discretion of school, but encouraged me in my second year to go for QTS conversion as they said I would not be able to go over threshold without QTS.Whilst not holding QTS, in my first year, this was trated as my NQT year so given no cover.In second year I was given cover but that is part and parcel of working in schools. My friends who did same PGCE as me but went into FE had lower pay than me and had to teach other subjects in order to top up their working hours within FE sector.I did conversion course in my second year with help of school, didn't have to re-do PGCE nor attend a university. I cannot remember name of the trainers who came in to observe me/go over portfolio but all went well.It was a lot of paperwork but gained QTS and did skills test.Went through threshold last September.
  13. Hi
    I too have the problem of being unqualified I teach psychology in the sixth form but as a unqualified with the head topping up my salary to come into line with my coleagues. I think i'll need to get the QTS as murmurings of pay have begun. I want to get it all done quickly and like the idea of a 1.5 terms. How was this done and where..I want to get onto the threshold as living is becoming expensive!!
    Any help/advice will be welcomed
  14. I did the GTP but had to take up teaching HSC in order to become a qualified teacher as no where accepted me as a psych teacher (as its not a nat curriculum subj) if you are lucky enough to get on the GTP with psych then go for it!!

    Ive been teaching 5 years now & have been given head of psych at an international school in BKK- it was the best decision I ever made to persue psych :)

    Good luck xxx
  15. lynsita - FE not only option - you can apply for posts in 6th form colleges - better pay and conditions very close to that of schools and without a lot of the things that you do not want that go with working in a school, even if you teach mostly or even exclusively 6th form, as I did.

  16. oh and private sector generally don't really care about QTS either but again you would most certainly be expected to be ' involved in the whole life of the school'...and that can be a whole great big can of worms! nice, neat, clean, quite well spoken worms usually...but worms!
  17. Virtualpsychology, I ahve just finished my GTP and I am really glad it is over. It was hard work, in that I had to spend hours writing documents to match the standards and filing paper. It wasn't hard, but it was time consuming. The assessment was fine, and I passed with flying colours. i put this down to the fact that I have been teaching 4 years now so in a way I was already past what they normally see in a GTP.

    I would say go for it, it is tedious having to prove you a capable of doing a job you have probably been doing for years, but it does make life easier as you will have parity of pay and more opportunities for progression.

    I am now thinking about Advance skill teacher, as I believe there is a demand in psychology for that kind of support. I couldn't do that without QTS.
  18. Thanks celticchick. I agree with you but have had little success in getting into 6th form colleges that I could work at so far, so now just apply for any job in a 'good' setting that I can get to, whether long-term supply or permanent.
  19. After years of lobbying by the ATP, BPS and others, the TDA have at last agreed to fund 50 places nationally for secondary PGCEs in Psychology. Manchester Met, Edgehill & Wolves have been awarded contracts. There is a real alternative to GTP at last.
  20. Hello everyone,
    Thanks for your replies/information. I have decided to go down the Assessment only route I think it's offered by Uni of Glous hopefully I can get it completed in a couple or terms. Has anyone completed this route and have any advice or info?
    Oh by the way can unqualified teachers be awarded TLR points as HOD for Psych know one seems to be sure?
    Thanks for your help so far!!

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