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Teaching Overseas without a degree

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by iamclarissa, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. iamclarissa

    iamclarissa New commenter

    Hello all

    I have a 2 Year post Graduate Diploma in Community Dance and a PGCE before QTS from Brighton University. I also have 30 years teaching experience including Head of Dance and Head of Performing Arts. I have also taught GCSE Dance Drama and A Level Dance and Drama. I have been in my current job for 20 years. I would like to teach abroad for my last teaching years. Would I be able to?
    Thanks Claire
  2. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    In China the number one requirement for a work visa is a 3 yr Degree obtained in a “native” English speaking country.
  3. krakowiak6

    krakowiak6 Occasional commenter

    Interesting that a graduate diploma is 4 years and a BA 3 years. The GD isn't recognised for Saudi Arabia and probably China and anywhere outside the EU. Its a level 6 qualification same as a BA and is bachelors degree status therefore.

    I don't know how you could have done a PGCE with only a 2 year diploma though.
  4. taiyah

    taiyah Occasional commenter

    I am with krakowiak6. How in the world did Brighton University allow you to do a PGCE and then a QTS? Let's call spade a spade, absolute dodgy practices such as these are the lone reason why more and more countries are asking for notarised degrees and teaching qualifications.

    Good news for the OP, you will find places and schools who will be desperate enough to meet their marketing strategy and employ you. Asia is your best bet. You will also need to take into consideration age limits in different countries.
  5. Ne11y

    Ne11y Occasional commenter

    Many places won't be able to take you, as much as they might want to, due to visa requirements.

    Also, in my (limited, admittedly) experience in my part of the world, arts teachers tend to be local hires (cheaper to employ). Drama tends to be combined with English.

    Do your research, identify places where your qualifications will be accepted and keep an eye out for opportunities. Good luck!
    frogusmaximus likes this.
  6. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    Dear Claire,

    I am sure that there are many schools around the world that would want to employ an experienced teacher like you, who has a lot to offer. My advice would be to "Cast your bread on the waters" and apply for any and every job that might perhaps be suitable. If Principal A or Principal B do not reply, then don't lose any sleep. Just send off some more applications. This is the joy of applying by e-mail. (Yes, I know that the received wisdom is that we should carefully tailor and expertly craft our application to each individual school, but usually I cannot be bothered.) Lots of schools also arrange SKYPE interviews, so what have you got to lose?

    One or two misguided people write to a smelly old swamp-dwelling animal. In fact, I have sent you one of those TES Conversation things. Now you need to click on your picture at the top right-hand corner of the screen.
    afterdark likes this.
  7. yasf

    yasf Established commenter

    Does that mean that you have QTS? Your preposition has confused me, sorry :(
    Huh ?
  8. yasf

    yasf Established commenter

    Depends on the subject. I don't see why non academic subjects can't have alternative qualification routes? They used to do the same with DT teachers who'd come from industry.
  9. krakowiak6

    krakowiak6 Occasional commenter

    WHat I meant was I have a graduate diploma not a BA and it was 4 years to get it not 3. I could get onto the PGCE course with it as it is equivalent to a bachelors. But the 2 year post grad diploma I don't know. The OP has been a teacher for 20 odd years so 20 years ago they probably allowed them to do a PGCE. Everything seems to be BA nowadays though. Polytechnics were around when I did my degree/GD. Now, theyre ALL universities.
  10. yasf

    yasf Established commenter

    Full time? They really need to backdate things when they change the name of courses, and just posthumously award the modern equivalent. It's unfair otherwise. I've met some great older teachers that had the Cert Ed, which they'd just call a B. Ed or BA + QTS these days.
  11. taiyah

    taiyah Occasional commenter

    Considering it is 2019, school fees are high and expat teachers wanting to be rewarded for thier services. It most certainly is a step in the right direction countries are demanding the correct and attested qualifications to obtain employment visas. No matter what subject, "non-academic" or KLAs.
  12. frogusmaximus

    frogusmaximus Occasional commenter

    Spot on.

    Many appoint local hire for all non academic roles: library, sports, art, drama etc. As an aside, some schools would employ a spouse in a teaching assistant role, others would not.
  13. yasf

    yasf Established commenter

    I've known a few schools do that, and it hasn't always worked out quite as they would have liked. Interesting that the Librarian is considered a non academic role!
  14. ejclibrarian

    ejclibrarian Established commenter Community helper

    Most good international schools do recognize librarians as teaching staff and they tend to hire librarians from the UK, USA, Australia, New Zealand, Canada in the same way they do teachers. It's a very competitive climate at the moment as there are lots of very well qualified librarians around who are highly sought after.
  15. iamclarissa

    iamclarissa New commenter

  16. iamclarissa

    iamclarissa New commenter

    I am concerned about the amount of negative feedback. I went to LTS stage school. Believe me my professional training at a top dance college was no walk in the park either. I did a 2 year post grad yes you were allowed to then I did a 4000 word research project with 30 minutes of practical professional choreography. I wrote numerous essays. I then freelanced my ass off performing choreographing and teaching for 5 years. I ran a professional contemporary dance co for 7 years. It was considered I had enough experience to get a PGCE so I did. I have designed several courses since then including for H E. If you look on the Laban Trinity Website my course is considered at masters level. However it seems the world is ageist and visas in particular. I believe I have more than enough experience to work abroad. Thanks for the show of support!
  17. Ne11y

    Ne11y Occasional commenter

    I'm sorry you feel its all so negative, but it reflects the reaction you may get from potential employers. Many won't understand your qualifications or be able to get you a visa because of your "unconventional" (for want of a better term) route. Unless you have specific documentation (PGCE/BA Ed. + QTS in short), they might not be able to employ you.

    Even if I have misunderstood and you do hold a PGSE + QTS, dance is not often sought after in the international circuit, but there may be opportunities out there, so keep looking and good luck!
  18. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    I would worry about teaching with out a degree. You'll have much much more problems finding anywhere that does your subject as a stand alone class. Unless you are willing to teach Drama or maybe music at a push, the number of international schools that have dance teachers is going to be tiny.

    Best of luck
  19. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    I sorry if it all sounds so negative but the real issue in not been able to place a BSc/BA on the visa application form. Many countries have a 1900s view on education, qualifications and a require a 3 year Degree obtained on a full time course with face to face tuition.

    I can think of no international school in Shanghai that offers Dance as an IGCSE/A Level examination subject, only as an ECA. So unless you can offer PE/Drama/English Lang/Lit(or another examination subject) your chances of employment are slim to none existent here in China.
  20. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    In Europe you would be OK as (for the time being at least) you wouldn't need a visa. However, finding schools that offer drama on the curriculum would be the challenging thing. Drama at our school is only offered as an after school club and the teacher goes from school to school offering this.

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