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Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by halfajack, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    Good luck with your Masters. It's something I've considered before. Keep us updated with how it goes and whether you think us worthwhile. I've heard other teachers who've work in 'industry' before teaching saying something similar to you. I believe there are some teachers who are sheltered from reality but I believe this will die out. I worked all through my degree and PGDE in a variety of jobs and almost full-time for most of the time. I made more friends in my workplaces than at uni and felt very much in touch with the 'real world.' I think my experience is now much more common, and will be the case for more and more students as living costs continue to rise. I don't think a 'break' from education is necessary (except for the lovely, long summers of university days which many use to work more hours to save up for the next term). Making it a requirement would certainly reduce competition for jobs. I'm not sure we'd necessarily be left with the best teachers though.
  2. Thanks halfajack - very measured given the tone of my original post
  3. A post moaning about moaning? Ironic, what? [​IMG] OK sensible answer - I think you're generalising somewhat. In my school, we have teachers both SUS and industry-before-teaching and the moaning is as loud from both camps. Teaching is not a happy profession in this country at the moment and almost everyone is feeling down about the job. Me? I love teaching. I love being with the pupils and teaching them. I don't love all the **** that's being piled on us all from on high. Is it worse than any other job? No, not at all. Doesn't mean I'm not entitled to whinge about something that I don't think is right, surely?
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    I was 35 when I qualified to teach. Prior to that I did all manner of jobs. That entitles me, in my opinion, to roll my eyes at the OP.
    That'll be me. I chose it because I needed something to fit in with my children's school holidays after I became a lone parent and wanted off benefits.
    It's a JOB. One I do well most of the time. (Unlike the OP I have off days.)
    In what way is teaching any different from any other job - they ALL have something that those involved will moan about. My consultant cardiologist had a right good moan to me about the new computer system being brought in...he'd quit over the head of it but is supporting an adult student son through his very expensive course.
    Sharing one's moans is therapeutic and allows us to share the burden of those who moan to us.
    Paying the mortgage, the gas, the electric, the shopping, the petrol etc etc.

    Really, OP, get over yourself!
    Good luck with the Masters - it's a well known fact that additional qualifications make you a better teacher. (I should know.)

  5. iamspartacus79

    iamspartacus79 New commenter

    I understand where you are coming from aclockworkorange. Most of us are just frustrated because we want to do things that benefit our pupils, but we are often prevented from doing so by silly adults, mainly politicians. Oh the things I could do if my class sizes were smaller! Please understand that the 'moaning' is coming from a good place - we want to do the best for the good folks that come into our rooms every day: from the wee cheeky boys who provide the banter, to the quiet conscientious types who just want to work hard. Ultimately, our moans are for them, not for ourselves.
  6. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter

    Good post Mossop. I have worked with really good and really bad teachers who came into teaching from both "routes". I don't think "life experience" in a teaching role is overly important however in a pastoral or management role those with life experience, on average, tend to be more effective compared to others with the same length of teaching service.
  7. Have to half agree with the OP. I qualified as teacher when I was 35, and to be honest, it is just a job. I don't wake up in the morning and skip to school, and hear violins and trumpets when a pupil get something right. The more I have taught, the more I believe we are just glorified babysitters pretending that we are really professional. It is a holding pen to allow mum and dad to go to work and keep the stupid economy bubbling along.
    But there is a major difference between our job and others. The taking of work home and the marking. Major bugbear with me. Whole weekends gone because the exams are here. Some subjects, like mine, are marking heavy, and there is no thanks ever given for it, while other subjects have no marking whatsoever, and these are the teachers who go onto climb the greasy pole to nowhere.
    I believe teachers should be banned from doing the School/Uni/School thing if possible. It is not good for them and it is not good for the weans.
  8. jonowen

    jonowen Occasional commenter

    ..................troll anyone?
    If you want thanks for doing your work Serb, you are in the wrong job and please don't expect sympathy - we all can choose to work hard if we like. Marking doesn't feature much in my workload but I don't suppose practising piano accompaniments ALL year (and not just at SQA exam times) features much in your workload?
    Unbelievable!!!!!!!! [​IMG]
    ps. how long have you been a teacher for? Just curious
  9. Nonsense. I know good school-uni-school teachers and I know good 'I have real life experience' teachers. I also know terrible school-uni-school teachers and terrible 'I have real life experience' teachers. I would never presume to think one is better than the other simply due to their previous work experience.
  10. jonowen

    jonowen Occasional commenter

  11. cochrane1964

    cochrane1964 New commenter

    And breath......

    I love teaching.

    Better than that, I love learning and facilitating learning.

    I detest self-serving education system that rewards lick-spittles instead of talented teachers.

    I detest the unthinking automatons who do not read any policy documents nor consider their impact but swallow the latest ones to promote themselves.

    But then again, I love teaching and I'd put the satisfaction rating of my pupils up beside anyone else.
  12. Dominie

    Dominie New commenter

  13. I think shakespeare puts it quite well - "the lady dost protest too
    much" ?

    1. Teaching is NOT some kind of part time job you can do while you bring up your "kids" - and am shocked to think that you actually agree with me - ie that so many (women) view teaching as a life style choice rather than a vocation and are therefore completely unprofessional? (or could crawl into PSE?)
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    No, it's a full-time job you can do while you bring up your kids. I did just that.
    I'm assuming that bit isn't aimed at me since I don't.
    Not sure who suggested it was a lifestyle choice...it's a JOB. I'm sure lots of very good teachers view it as a vocation and am equally sure that just as many very good teachers view it as a JOB.
    Now you're just being silly. Without meeting other teachers or observing them doing their job you can accuse them of being unprofessional? You poor, deluded fool.
    You must be an absolute joy to work with.
    ...or a troll.

  15. I am a teacher and I teach. I enjoy it most days but sometimes I get fed up. Just now I am fed up as are many of my colleagues are. I feel I am not trusted to do my job; I am not happy with cfe, especially assessment, and I am not working past 63. I don't believe I could do the job properly beyond that age.
  16. theNavigator

    theNavigator New commenter

    I became a teacher for the big holidays and the steady income. Mind you, I discovered I rather like the job, and seem to get reasonable results, as well as having a decent working relationship with most pupils. I was out travelling and working in the big wide world for several years before becoming a teacher, and I can see the positive and the negative points. But I actually want to PUNCH anyone who uses the word 'vocation' near me. Particularly in these crazy days.
  17. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    Totally agree[​IMG]
    I'm not happy with CFE assessment either. I've seen what my colleagues in other secondaries are doing with endless profiling, endless surveys for kids to complete, trying to assess groupwork done on PowerPoint presentations or projects made on Moviemaker, tracking all the Es and Os taking up hours on end. Basically jumping through every single hoop that their HT or LA demands. It simply can't be done, there isn't enough time.
    But I've got a very simplistic view on it . What am I doing? Teaching my classes like I did before all this ****** came in. There's the odd wee unit test, odd we bit of homework and an ocassional wee project to do, a few DVDs and audio clips to watch, but a limited amount of this in yer face "active" learning. Plenty of asking kids questions and allowing them to ask in return. To me active learning = active brain. It doesn't have to be endless bashing out of powerpoint files, posters or continuous peer group assessment. There is a place for a jotter and a board at times!
    And you know what? Subject uptake is really good from S3 up, the kids like it because they are engaged - we have teachers who are passionate about their subject and good at delivering the content.
    If teachers are really professional and value what they do, they need to stand up and start doing what they think is right and not what others (incidentally who are rarely in classrooms) tell them what is right. It has worked before.
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    I'd add 'and colleagues' to the 'decent working relationships'.
    Most - not all - do end up being a bit more realistic as they gain experience. To be honest, in almost 20 years of teaching I've not actually heard those words being uttered by more than one or two colleagues and they were laughing at their starry eyed younger selves at the time.
    From time to time I've been thoroughly scunnered by the whole business of teaching and looked for something else - it didn't take long to discover that there's not much out there that pays as much or had such good job security. Steady income and job security have been my two major priorities. Sadly, for too many colleagues job security has become a thing of the past.
    There is a lot that is good about teaching but there is plenty to moan about - if the OP has no complaints either about his own job or what is happening to education or to his teaching colleagues then I'd suggest he's not very observant.

  19. kibosh

    kibosh Star commenter

    And let's not forget that for a substantial number of teachers, job security and steady income are things they have never experienced and are very unlikely to. There's only so long you can keep going when you are facing a future of 1yr contracts intermixed with general supply.

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