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teachers views on CfE

Discussion in 'Scotland - curriculum' started by wwwwwwwww, Sep 22, 2008.

  1. Sorry xmal, missed your post. There were over 20 presentations from teachers who are putting CfE into place in secondaries, so I can't really summarise "what was said" - there was a wide range of innovative practice on display.
  2. gnulinux

    gnulinux Occasional commenter

    It must have been really interesting - if you can't remember anything about it!

  3. misterroy

    misterroy New commenter

    I reckon if i could swallow a pill to do away with my reticence i could stand up in a hall and tell a tale of a brilliant lesson and how it might fit into CfE.

    But i haven't a clue about how to prepare a brilliant CfE course.

    I need to know some basics, like my dept's time allocation, this is the kind of info that does not exist.

  4. I never said I couldn't remember anything about it. I remember SO much, there isn't enough space to share it here with you. Designing a CfE curriculum? Outdoor Education? Citizenship through Project Work?; Delegated Leadership in CfE development?; Citizenship and behaviour Management? Where do I start and where do I end?

    Of course, if you'd taken the trouble to go, instead of just moaning in here, I wouldn't need to "cascade" this excellent CPD to you.
  5. Dominie

    Dominie New commenter

    How on earth can ANY secondary teacher "put CfE into place"???
    So far we have had Outcomes and Experiences which could beat an Alzheimers' patient for vagueness and Building the Curriculum 3 which suffered from similar verbal diahorrea and lack of specification.
    What you heard was a bunch of people putting over THEIR ideas about CfE. These may or may not be appropriate or practicable. Some of the ideas I have heard expressed have been downright daft.
    We will not know what can be put into place until BTC4 is published in the New Year. Then there's the outcome of the National Qualifications Consultation also.

    The real danger of CfE is that we face fragmentation in the secondary sector where we previously had a pretty consistent approach in every secondary school in Scotland.

  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    I'm yet to be convinced that CfE is anything other than a collection of vague aspirations and even more vague philosophising with very little meat on the bones.

    Exploring LTS, HMI and SQA leaves me unconvinced.

    What I now know for sure is that we've somehow been failing to teach well and that pupils were unable to learn as a result of the poor methodologies which have preceded CfE. ...I've got that bit right, haven't I?
  7. Great debate, I wish those concerned read these posts and act upon them.CfE is vague and laddened with jargon that actually doesn't mean/tell you anything to base your teaching on.Overarching, experiences,lines of development,strap lines etc...buzzwords which mean nothing in the real word. They seem like they have taken the 5-14 outcomes/strands headings and substituted and exagerated them with more fancy words. I memorised some of them from constantly meeting/hearing the most boring presentations in education but I am still lost to what I am supposed to do!

    Are they trying to drown The Scottish Education System and make life difficult for the teacher?

  8. Spot on.
    We were patronised on a recent October in-service day by an "Education Officer" so out her depth it was embarrassing. All the time "CfE" was repeated like a mantra in a last desperate effort to tick that last audit box on informing teachers of how easily they "could meet the challenges" because a primary school down the road had made a video on paired reading ... we never quite got the connection but we were very clear at the end of how completely useless the people in charge were - as if we needed any more proof.
    Another point,- this new improved CfE (for the 0 to 80s?) is going to be so revolutionary it won´t even need to be financially supported. In fact "Cost Neutral" is the new political phrase dictated to every captive audiance recently....does anyone else get the feeling that the new CfE is going to look remarkably like whatever initative that came before - or even the one before that?
    Maybe they should leave the teachers alone to get on with their jobs ? But at least it has become more obvious what staff they need to "reallocate" in order to save schools millions.

  9. update- they relocated the one above by promoting them! You wonder why things aren't going well in education... problem is, the further they are up the way the louder the noise they can make when they point the finger elsewhere ie at us, for not doing what they didn't say....

  10. Apparently, the title "A Curriculum for Excellence" was too long-winded so they decided to drop the "A"...they think it's still a bit long and so are considering dropping other words...soon it will be non-existant!!!
    Does anyone else feel as though their workload had increased? Our school keeps taking on new initiatives (active literacy, purposeful play etc), all of which have to be supported by a ton of planning and extra resource making, not to mention the amount of evidence us teachers have to collate and display in evidence books (gigantic blank jotters)...at times I feel as though I'm not really a teacher, more of apromoter for our LA's innovative (ha ha) work. I'm scunnered after 11 years of teaching. I asked an older colleague how she had managed to keep doing it for so long and do you know what she said? People used to teach for pleasure, they loved it, taught what they liked and were interested in and the kids reaped the benefits...no-one breathing down your neck to ensure you're teaching at the right pace, challenging pupils etc...bring back the old days, we're supposed to be professionals!!!

  11. If you read between the lines, this is exatly what CFE is going to give back to the teacher.
  12. cfe is rehashing old ideas on the cheap. Have all assessments marked by teachers, have it open to abuse ( assessment levels fitting targets) use 5-14 targets under cfe headings, provide litte money, have no concrete ideas and no resources.That is the classroom and teacher feel of cfe.
    People are worried about implementation - I wouldn't as it will be changed and developed to a watered down version that requires all the work on the teachers' part and litte from the govt ecept bits of paper.Think about Higher still inparticular the english courses. Within the 1st year I think there were 85 changes to it.!!!!!!
  13. gnulinux

    gnulinux Occasional commenter

    What is the betting that it will all be shelved due to lack of money? As I have said elsewhere, A Curriculum for Excellence -> A Crunch for Education!
  14. Unforunately that´s not going to happen. They´re going to push this unsubstantiated nonsense as far as they can. Perhaps it´ll be the success that the 5-14 was... i.e. with the exception of the ISE, much ado about nothing.
    Those reponsible for this certainly do not have the consideration of the teacher, nevermínd pupils, at heart. However, they (from their lofty heights) will no doubt "expect" the teacher to do all the work - in order that their "expert?" ideas will be realised... at no extra cost.
    Wouldn´t it be nice if instead of promoting the speak and talking the talk that they actually did something themselves and walked the walk? We are being poorly nmanaged by over paid uppity trainee managers who just don´t have a clue.
  15. I've been rather lucky this year, I landed a long term supply with some lovely classes and I just went for it, teaching exactly as I pleased. When a kid asked a question I went with that and built a lesson around their interests as well as things i wanted to teach them. I had them working in groups, being creative, being helpful, and generally having a ball. As a supply I did not have to engage in politics or BS.

    I have learned from other older teachers many excellent methods and learnt from kids how to manage and earn trust. As i see it good teachers have always been using a kind of CfE. Another term is coming to an end and I can only hope I am lucky enough to get a similar chance next term in a new place. It is a difficult place to be but such a rewarding job too.
  16. xmal

    xmal Established commenter

    So we have to try and interpret the subtext to try to make some sense of it all?
  17. Why not? We are paid professionals. In any other professional job, you work within a framework which allows you a certain amount of flexibility to do your job the way you want to do it. Has the restrictive scheme of work, teach to the test boredom that has been secondary education in the last 2 decades made teachers too dependent on someone telling them how to do their job? I know that the content I teach is going to be the same as I have taught for the last 20 years. I also know that I would like more flexibility in how that content is presented to the pupils. CFE appears to give me that flexibility.
  18. Same with me. I like new, innovative, progressive, and this seems to open up things and be less prescriptive (which I like), but there are hard, nutty-gritty questions unanswered like how is any of this assessed . . . this has been an ongoing issue in 5-14 science due to the vagueness, lack of examplars, and scarcity of anybody who'd devised 5-14 who could advise on how to do it. Also, there's the usual boundary problem of kids arriving at secondary with completely different science experience from various feeder primaries. I reckon this won't be resolved in CforE.
    Joe [​IMG]
  19. Think Joe Smith has put his finger on it. On the one hand, a loosening up of the curriculum, allowing less prescription about what we teach, is welcome. On the other hand, how long will this last when the new exams/assessments come in? Will it not be back to being restricted by the exam?
    The main problem as I see it is the vast amount of misinformation, or lack of information - I'm not sure which it is! Every teacher seems to have a different interpretation of what is GOING to happen and seem to be very sure about it. I wonder where they got their info and why haven't I heard it? What have I missed? I read how some teachers are convinced it's all Project work (for example) some talk about assessments (?) - I thought none of that had been decided yet!
    Is it people in different areas whose local authorities have already made their interpretation? This strikes me as pretty dangerous if we are all confused before we even start!!!!
    The other very dodgy area is the options that are in the process of being made by schools (every school different) as to what courses will be available in S1-3. We have just been asked our opinions on Options and a couple of them mention courses with S2 AND S3 pupils in the same class.
    Anyone got any experience of this? My own feeling is that there is a big difference in maturity level, interests etc
    What happens with so much fragmentation from school to school when a pupil changes schools? There may be no common curriculum to fit into.
    Finally, (for now) I am worried about the Project Work approach. I have tried bits of this in my subject (MFL) but, although the pupils might have quite enjoyed it, they <u>learned </u>absolutely NOTHING! It's all very well cutting and pasting information but how much of the info do they either learn or even understand? Granted you could blame me, the way I set up the project etc fair enough, but all my dept. tried the same project and we all said the same - they learned very little. The Project Work route also fragments what pupils learn and they find it difficult to situate what they learn. Content does matter! Quote in my S1 class "In which countries do they speak French? Enthusisatic hand goes up: China! Content free anyone?

  20. gnulinux

    gnulinux Occasional commenter

    In the same vein ...



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