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Teachers Suffer 2,346 Attacks by Pupils in Essex

Discussion in 'Behaviour' started by HonestMike, Aug 13, 2011.

  1. YesMrBronson

    YesMrBronson New commenter

    Clearly, this was your implication.
    Hmmmm. That would be why you posted under the name "minivan" until you had to change to your current name at the request of the TES. I've challenged others' opinions (and the basis for them) plenty of times on here (especially over on the opinion forum) without needing to know their identity. So no, that's not the reason.
    You're free to think that (though you don't actually believe your own post). You sound a bit unhinged Ray.

  2. Yes I mentioned this in the post. My advice was given before the thread turned nasty and wasn't aimed solely at you - the advice was ignored by the OP. If we agree that I am yet to acknowledge anyone else on this thread and that I have not perhaps we you can retract your claim that you have been ganged up on.
    There is a difference between acknowledging and ignoring what everyone else says.
    I didn't say you deserved to be flamed.
    He agreed with me on one point I made; I can't help this and it doesn't mean we have the same values or agree on everything - he clearly doesn't agree with me on everything because he ignored the advice by posting more anecdotes.
    Earlier accuse me of ganging up on you. Now you are complaining that I'm ignoring everyone else - which is it?
    Ah was this the thread where you referred to me as 'utter scum' then decided to try and police the forum yourself by accusing me of bullying after I was sceptical towards someone you happen to agree with? If I remember correctly you pushed this so far that another member of the forum felt the need to step in and question what you were doing.
    I've already told you my opinions about dealing with flaming. I'm not going to respond to it so please stop asking.
  3. YesMrBronson

    YesMrBronson New commenter

    Well that was strange. When I came on at 14:45ish there was a new post in this thread from a first time poster (a Head). Then, a moment ago, my hotlist told me there was another new post. However, when I checked this thread I found that the new poster's post had been removed along with some others (including a very 'special' one, addressed to me, from a certain poster).
  4. aaaaah - put in a long response that didn't appear!!!!
  5. I basically said that I'm an NQT, I teach in a scool considered to be a 'sink school', I don't witness any rioting, kids behave in my room, in my lessons.
    I agreed with Tom's blog (post 5), disagreed that you'd expect the worst behaviour in student teachers' lessons, said I got to know what works with the kids in my class hence they behave for me!
    (But said it with more detail)
  6. I never fail to be amazed how wet-behind-the ears NQTs 'always succeed' where highly experienced teachers fail. It's incredible. Children who are demons across the curriculum, suddenly, faced with a green NQT conform and become model pupils.
    Such spurious claims are to do with the fear culture that exists amongst new, young, naive teachers, keen to impress. They tolerate all manner of atrocious pupil behaviour and abuse, fearful of seeking help and being thought of as in some way deficient. Such a martye attitude deos nothing to help teachers in general; it's akin to pouring petrol on a bonfire, suffering horrific 90 per cent burns and then claiming everything's dandy !
    I've just spoken to a friend of mine, a very experienced and tough teacher, who works in Barking, Essex. He tells me that he's worried about returning next month to his school in ther wake of the appalling riots in London. He tells me that his headteacher refuses to ban blackberries being brought in by pupils, even though these were the rioters', most of whom were schoolchildren, main means of communication. Lots of teachers in London feel this way and who can blame them !I also know of schools in London that have been set fire to by pupils and trashed during school hours.
    It'll be a miracle if a riot doesn't occur in a school, especially in London or the Home Counties.
  7. Interesting post gerryanderson. Can't say I've experienced young, green, eager-to-please NQTs claiming all is well while facing atrocious behaviour at my school. The opposite is true where I am, but I suppose that may be true in some schools.
    I was one of 5 NQTs who started last year at my school. The others were all young (under 25) - I'm not at nearly 50 but still an NQT. We all have seen awful behaviour in our classes and have been honest. I'm the only one still teaching here next year. 2 quit teaching because of behaviour, 1 has found another school from September (she couldn't face this school for another year). The other has resigned with no job to go to yet, has signed up to supply agencies.
    The others were young enough to believe all the solid **** produce we were taught at teacher training, and tried to use the unworkable discipline system at our school. I quickly realised it was all ballox and used my quick wit and mean streak to verbally demolish anyone who played up. Looking like a battle axe probably helped!
    So no, kids don't riot in my school, despite its reputation. They are atrocious to new teachers, disgustingly, inhumanely vile. Twisted in fact. Yet kids behave in my lessons. Why the disbelief?
  8. Thank you for your honesty, WemAles, makes a change to hear some truth abouthow atrocious schools are.
    Yes, I saw countless young NQTs embark on a mission to change the world, only to bottle out after a year or two after constant pupil abuse.
    I'd agree that being mature in teaching, with life experience, helps.
    I always found it a great pity that we have to go in hard in order to survive in schools, which means little opportunity to stretch pupils' learning and minds. Most of our time is consumed by crowd management.But, this we have to d.
    Pupil behaviour is also worsening in public schools, Indeed, I recently witnessed sixth form boys schouting obscenities, throwing stones at staff houses and kicking footballs at close to midnight, at a top Essex public school, all outside the headmaster's residence - he did absolutely nothing !

  9. moscowbore

    moscowbore Star commenter

    Just had to get an oar in here.

    I have just read this thread. I have a few comments.

    First, I firmly believe that the fundamental foundation of any disciplinary system is management support. If the management dont support the teachers by implementing and sticking to a disciplinary policy, the teacher has no chance. Second, I fundamentally believe that the simple requirement for civilised behaviour in a classroom needs to be the first step in any disciplinary system. Teaching cannot be effective or efficient where students believe that they do not need to follow any rules. The requirement for civilised behaviour comes first, before any relationship can be built with a student. I know that is where me and old raymondo differ. My belief is that if a student is incapable of civilised behaviour then they should be taken out of mainstream education. Having a feral child in a class of good students will cause problems for the good students and that should not be allowed.

    A philosopher friend of mine told me once that if two intelligent people disagree then one of them is not in possession of all of the facts or one of them ignoring the facts. Frankly, I have taught students who would set fire to old raymondo while he was trying to understand their emotional needs.

    Tom describes perfectly the lies spun about behaviour. Bad behaviour is destroying the English education system. I am sure old raymondo would disagree. The damage is being done but is being ignored by the powers that be. They point to GCSE pass rates and beam. The algorithms used to calculate grade boundaries are massaged every year to produce those utterly meaningless numbers. I remember well the pressure on teachers to , in effect, do the coursework for students. The effect is that students with GCSE English cant write descriptions, students with GCSE maths cant do any calculations without a calculator. But the schools only care about the pass rates, the learning part has been forgotten along the way.

    I now teach in Qatar in a completely comprehensive, non selective, non-fee paying school. We teach anybody who turns up at the door. We follow the English national curriculum and do Cambride IGCSEs, A levels and some Edexcel A levels. Most of our students come to our school with no English and yet this year we have achieved 75% 5 A-C in year 11 as a school. Remember thats IGCSEs, no coursework. Just shows you what you can achieve if there are no behaviour problems.

    My advice to anyone still teaching in the UK, leave.
  10. qatarsoon, you're spot on. State school education in the UK is diabolical. I'm not in the slightest surprised by the disgusting, criminal assault, whereby a seemingly used condom, was thrown in a female teacher's face. Neither am I in the slightest bit surprisedthat the senior managers blamed her. Middle aged women teaching in London have been blamed by heads for boys that *** in front of them. Female teachers have been sexually assaulted by pupils and nothing done. These same cowardly leftist heads and deputies would wipe the floor with any pupils that abused their wives or daughters, however, these spineless chickens expect their female staff to take any form of abuse, however warped and unlawful. My own advice would be to any teacher that suffers assault of any description, to report it at their local Police station. Don't let the *** heads and deputies persuade you otherwise.Inform your union immediately too - their regional office, not the bod in your school who is at the beck and call of the head and will side with them not you.
    Yes, the exam results each year are a farce.Successive governments have dumbed down standards to ensure artificially high grades in order to suppress youth unemployment. So many employers complain each year about children who can't read, write and are innumerate.
    Discipline in schools is now a scarcity, thanks to decades of left-wing appeasement, courtesy of Labour and Tories and the EU.
    As a former deputy head, who became fed up to the back teeth with having to do battle daily with thugs, tarts and a headteacher scared of his own shadow and a lunatic LEA, I'm glad to be out of it. I do feel for all of who though stuck in rotten schools each day facing other people's vile children. In the light of the recent riots by schoolchildren I feel that a precedent was set and that riots could well break out in schools. I've seen minor ones in my time and rooms trashed and equipment smashed up. My advice, especially to young graduates, is either get out of or avoid going into teaching. You'll be a punchbag for kids and heads and it'll make you depressed, angry and ill.
    As for Soltsyek, who really gives a damn what he thinks. I'd like to know why he's allowed by his university employer to spend so much time posting on this website ? If schools are as great as he claims, then why doesn't he teach in them ?
    Schoolteaching - probably the worst job in the UK.

  11. I agree with a lot of your sentiment about state education but lets not pretend that the behaviour crisis is caused by people who are left wing. The behaviour crisis is everyones problem - getting everyone to agree it exists is the first problem, stopping left and right wing teachers from blaming it on the others ideaology is the second.

  12. Health and safety breaches are commonplace in schools, sometimes with devestating effect. I recall a comp in Billericay, Essex attempting to cover up a case of a year 7 boy who was told to open a window in a classroom. The glass was old and thin and he accidentally put his hand through it, cutting his wrist. He required emergency surgery to save his life. Likewise, I was once in a school in Thurrock when a window was unsecured and blew in, shattering and sending shards of glass across a classroom of screaming year 7s. We all had to dive under the desks, a piece just missing me. These can be reported in confidence to your local Health and Safety Executive (HSE) office.
    In the worst case scenario, should you find yourself being constantly harassed by senior managers, following complaint about pupil abuse, and you feel unreasonably pressurised, so much so that you quit, then you have the right under law to seek redress at the Employment Tribunal Service (ETS). You must lodge a claim within 3 months of leaving the school. This can be done via your union or a no win no fee solicitor. More and more teachers are going down this route andrightly so. Be prepared for the school and LEA to lie about you left, right and centre.
    Also report any breach by heads of the Rarely Cover Agreement. This took many years of hard work by the unions, only to be breached day in and out by schools. If your school is using contracted teachers to cover more than one lesson per week, then report it your regional or national union rep. Likewise, constant use of unqualified cover supervisors/managers and TAs/LSAs, in the place of a qualified teacher, is illegal. This should only be a very short-term measure, viz, 3 weeks at most, not months and years on end ! Remember, this unlawful practice damages childrens' education and keeps qualified teachers on the dole queue. Neither is unacceptable and must be stopped. Speaking to a senior union official recently, he said to me that if only teachers would repoirt breach of Rarely Cover and unlawful use of unqualified staff, unions could take legal action against schools and LEAs and stop this.This same rep also said that schools routinely break the law because they believe that no-one will challenge them, meaning their teaching staff.
    Also report any instance of schools employing overseas teachers who have not or are not in the process of meeting the required QTS standards as lain down in law. Likewise, any cases of overseas teachers who do not have working permits - I know of such a case occurring with a Zimbabwean teacher in a comp in Chelmsford.
    Schools keep on about children's rights, however, as a teacher, under English and EU law especially, you have just as many rights; above all, the right to do your job without being verbally and physically abused by minors, parents or senior managers.
    Whatever you do, don't suffer in silence, but exercise your legal rights, hold schools, heads and LEAs to account, don't let them keep breaking the law and abuse teachers. Remember - schools and LEAs are bound by the law as teachers. They do NOT have special exemption.
  13. I still don't know why RaymondSoltysek raises so much anger in posters, particularly on this thread. He's been vague about his opinion so I don't know exactly what he thinks.
    I agreed with him that there aren't 'riots' in schools - I got tired of repeating this last year coz I teach in a 'rough' school. Yet I didn't get the same.
  14. hhhh

    hhhh Star commenter

    Several schools in my area had riots, where police were called in...So yes, riots in schools happen.
  15. YesMrBronson

    YesMrBronson New commenter

    WemAles, some posts have been removed from this thread by the moderators (presumably at someone's request). Maybe this is why things aren't clear.
  16. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    The only posts that have been removed, WemAles, were posts which abused me in the most flagrant manner and one post by me which I made at the very end of a series of posts which epitomised the anger you have identified. There are no early posts from me missing from the thread - what you see is a genuine and accurate representation of the progress of the "debate".
    Don't believe everything you read on here: many of the posters who express such vitriol are not what they seem.
    As for why? It is because I challenge their views to restore some sense of perspective to an emotive debate. Simple.
    Now, as you have noted, this debate became poisioned. I would like to leave it at that and won't post in this thread again.
  17. YesMrBronson

    YesMrBronson New commenter

    I don't agree with that at all. Raymond's post was removed because it contained only abuse - no "sense of perspective" and no "debate". His post was only two words long.
  18. afterdark

    afterdark Lead commenter

    And neither, Ray, are you a school teacher.
    Your simplistic denial of reality is not rational Ray.
    Have you ever worked in a school with serious discipline problems Ray? I don't think so.
    It is therefore, rather tedious to have you pontificate about working in school in this forum.
  19. Totally agree 'YesMrBronson'. Soltsyek pontificates with his coseted ivory tower. He has demonstrated complete naivety about schools. I know of schools where there have been riots by pupils, including a comp in Chelmsford, Essex where sixth formers trashed the sixth form centre and hid rotten fish in the roofing ! The then head of sixth form, a total wet, asked staff in a staff meeting to "smile at the boys [rioters] as they're good lads really." With such a warped mindset I think she'd get on well with Raymond !

    My heart goes out to all schoolteachers next week. Remember - don't suffer abuse from pupils in silence - if your senior managers are weak socialist wets, then report it to your regional union rep, Ofsted's Whistleblowing Hotline (see above) and even your local newspapers. The more this abuse is exposed, which under the law you do not have to suffer, the sooner it will be dealt with. Good luck !
  20. Test - hope this works and I get a snazzy white quote box.
    A shame because you have some interesting views I'd like to challenge, or see challenged. Maybe next time on another thread.
    Seems to me like RaymondSoltysek visits lots of schools and sees lots of student teachers teaching. He hasn't seen any of the extreme behaviour that other teachers like me know happen. People tell him, he hasn't seen any evidence of it and as he sees students who have less behaviour management skills than NQTs he won't believe it. This irritates people, hence the anger. (IMO there is far more chance for awful behaviour in an NQT year than on a student placement. Obviously).
    Is that it?

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