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Teachers have been stitched up ….. by the unions ?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by topquark, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. topquark

    topquark New commenter

    OK these are the criteria and qualifications required to start a train drivers course:
    -to be over 20 years old to work on the national rail network (18 for the London underground)
    -to live within 1 hour’s commute of the area you’re applying for
    -Some employers may expect you to have GCSEs at grades 9 to 4 (A* to C) or equivalent in English and maths.

    Following repeated Southern Rail strikes, drivers have been given a 28.5% pay rise over the next five years.

    The national average Train Driver salary is £47,705. I am not going to bother stating the average salary of various tiers of the teaching salary – you are all very familiar with them. The train driver’s union is ASLEF and they charge approx 325 quid whilst the NUT charges 179 quid.

    There might be an end to the teacher’s 1% pay cap – maybe they’ll increase it to 2% ?

    Question: are we being short changed by our unions ? I would gladly pay 325 quid in order to get a 28% pay rise with better conditions etc. I used to be of the opinion that teachers should NOT strike because I was a child in the 80s who was directly effected by strikes but I’m changing my mind – why don’t we fight back, how have we become so subservient?
    Jigglywiggly, tonymars and Compassman like this.
  2. lizziescat

    lizziescat Star commenter

    Or perhaps - unions have been stitched up by their members.

    How many people do you know who complain about pay/conditions/workload but don't bother to even turn up to a meeting about changes in pay/pension/conditions?

    How many even bothered to vote (for or against) the recent amalgamation between NUT and ATL

    Oh and then complain that the union doesn't do anything for them.

    Re train drivers and teachers: I suspect it has more to do with members than union officials.
    bevdex, Pomz, vannie and 9 others like this.
  3. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    Train drivers strike quite often. One out all out etc...

    Teachers rarely strike. Teachers cross picket lines.

    vannie, needabreak, BetterNow and 8 others like this.
  4. Compassman

    Compassman Star commenter

    Exactly. ASLEF call a ballot it gets 90% turnout....teachers lucky if they get 40%. ASLEF calls a strike and it’s 100% solid.....teachers lucky if 50% out. ASLEF call a work to rule 100% follow it....teachers less than 5% I’d reckon.

    And teachers don’t know why they’re being shafted?
    vannie, tonymars, needabreak and 7 others like this.
  5. Bajan-night

    Bajan-night Occasional commenter

    I quite agree Lizziescat, don't even get me started on members who can't even be bothered to turn up at a union meeting, and yet are quick to moan that the union's not doing anything for them.
    blazer and vinnie24 like this.
  6. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    blazer likes this.
  7. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Lead commenter

    Absolutely agree with the pro-union posters above.

    Teachers are also being stitched up by the Government and yet a lot of these highly-educated turkeys still vote for the most malicious rabble at Westminster.
    vannie, blazer, vinnie24 and 4 others like this.
  8. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

    I disagree.

    When the unions are organising big ballots for strikes and they’re being voted down or ignored, you might have a point.

    But a few years ago the unions organised the first national teacher strike in decades, and most schools in the country closed.

    Forget one day strikes. What a waste.

    All out, we’re not coming back until X, Y and Z. Parents wouldn’t be able to sort child care in significant numbers and industry would grind to a halt. Settlement within a week or two.

    If the unions try to organise it and it fails, the above points will have some traction.

    Until then, refusing to try to organise it on the guess it wouldn’t be supported it is a pathetic excuse for inaction.
    tosh740 likes this.
  9. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Lead commenter

    Have you asked the question around your school? As a union rep I did at the time you suggested and the actual support was only just enough to close for the one day. Even that support was from the older staff who have since been whittled down by retirement, redundancy and even the Big-C.

    If you can raise that level of commitment where you are then please become your school rep and at least improve your local conditions.
  10. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    The colleagues will have to get annoyed enough/ have courage/ grow a spine first or PQ will be left hanging in the wind.
    blazer and JohnJCazorla like this.
  11. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    When comparing Train Drivers and Teachers, I forgot to point out the obvious- Train driving has a higher proportion of men, Teaching has higher proportion of women.

    I found that whilst many teachers like to complain (rightly) to each other about the stress, huge marking demands and poor conditions, they would rather not actually DO anything about it.

    It's a martyrdom complex which benefits no one- not the children, not the megalomaniacal SLT and not the teachers.

    The only people who benefit from teachers lying prostrate like door mats are the MAT CEO's, OFSTED and Dfe.

    The teachers are more than happy to see others going to the wall with stress, on medication, on capability as long as it's not them.
  12. Compassman

    Compassman Star commenter

    Some teachers love to boast about how much they work. Hearing the “I was up until 1am marking” seems to be a badge of honour to some.

    You can guarantee that members of ASLEF wouldn’t put up with lots of extra hours for no extra.

    But hey think of the children and all that.
    blazer and topquark like this.
  13. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Lead commenter

    I wasn't actually suggesting that @PeterQuint should immediately fire up the brazier, wave a red flag, learn the Internationale and blow a whistle whilst shouting "Everybody Out".

    I do suggest that he ask his colleagues, "If I were to fire up the brazier, wave.....etc. Then would you support this?"
  14. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    I wish they'd grow up. This is no way for a professional to behave. It makes them look like amateurs.

    Men value themselves more and are assert their rights regarding value of their labour more.

    IF a woman does this in a school based setting, I fear they get labelled as strident feminist and the other female teachers start to distance themselves from that woman.

    JohnJCazorla likes this.
  15. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    They'd still need a spine first.
    JohnJCazorla likes this.
  16. Yoda-

    Yoda- Lead commenter

    Teachers tend to be paper tigers. Lots of moaning but when it comes down to it many will not strike. Alot of people see teaching as a second income. Some will claim higher motives for not striking, I'm not convinced. The tactic of divide and conquer is all that's needed to control us....

  17. topquark

    topquark New commenter

    Some very interesting points of view so far - also very revealing. Only 30 years ago, teaching was a (more or less) respected career choice and one which you could expect to continue to retirement. Who can honestly say that they'll continue teaching until the day they receive their gold plated pen? Who would recommend a career in teaching to their own children these days?

    In order to form an objective opinion of what COULD have happened to our venerable career over the last 30 years, one only needs to look at what has happened to the state employed teachers in Mexico. You may not realise this, but Mexican teachers hold a very respectable place in society. Successive strike action has ensured massive salary increases for teachers over the years. The average mexican teacher salary is not too far away from that earned by a mexican accountant or computer programmer - in fact teachers earn nearly three times the national average wage and get this, the average number of hours worked by a mexican teacher is 31 hours per week!!!

    Are nearly all mexican teachers males, no way José - 65% of mexican teachers are señoras/señoritas. Interestingly, a female politician Elba Esther Gordillo led the biggest trade union in Latin America from 1989-2013 and it was the mexican national teachers union. Thanks to the very intelligent and courageous action by the union and teachers, the mexican teachers' salaries have increased by 138.6% in the last 15 years. Of course Gordillo ended up in jail accused of corruption, but the point is, if UK educators had followed the path of their mexican counterparts we wouldn't have the need for a TES forum "Workplace Dilemmas" with so many spine chilling true-life teaching experiences. The UK teacher workforce is evolving into an army of very young, subservient, workaholic and compliant individuals who wear their workhouse toils (as Compassman so wonderfully puts it) as a badge of honour.
  18. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Lead commenter

    But that makes @PeterQuint right. If we, the militant(ish)* ones, assume that all colleagues are soft, chicken, lily-livered, spineless individuals then we never bother checking if they have suddenly grown a spine over the latest colour-coding of marking.

    Where this argument falls down is that I've often checked and Yes they are invariably soft, chicken, lily-livered, spineless individuals.

    *the (ish) might just be me. I've seen plenty more militant ones.
  19. drvs

    drvs Star commenter

    I would rather be a teacher than a train driver and the salary disparity doesn't concern me as I'm in control of both my workload and my line manager's expectations :)
  20. Compassman

    Compassman Star commenter

    Good for you but many are not in control and their working hours are out of control. Train drivers are mostly on a 35 hour, 4 day week

    As someone who has moved from teaching and now works in the rail industry (not a train driver I might add!) the comparisons between teachers terms and conditions and those in the rail industry are stark.

    People working across the rail industry just would not put up with the nonsense that has gone on especially over the past few years. They would have been out and taking action. The union would be very proactive and so would its members. There would be strength in numbers.
    vannie, JohnJCazorla and drvs like this.

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