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Teachers dont get paid for all the hols?

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by Miss2012, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. Well.
    Had a coffee with a friend of mine whose partner has just become a school business manager. Nice chap. Anyway we were chatting and he said that teachers are all paid for the 195 days and then something like 25 days hols and 8 bank hols so probably paid for something like 45 weeks but over 52 weeks of year.

    Is that correct?
     
  2. Can't remember the exact number of days, but principle is correct. Changed a LONG while back....
     
  3. Don't think so.
    Teachers, if paid under STPCD are salaried staff, in that they are paid an annual salary. They have to be available for work for 195 days per year.
    The remaining days apart from week ends and public holidays are for teachers to work as they see fit in order to fulfil their contractual duties - this is covered in STPCD.
    The actual number of days holidays per annum are not specified.
     
  4. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    I am not sure it really matters; as far as I am concerned it is an annual salary and not a daily rate. However, it would be a good counter to the "teachers get too many holidays" brigade if we could tell them that some of the holidays are unpaid, so I rather hope that the public think this is the case.
     
  5. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    That's more or less a description of how TAs and other support staff are paid. It's not how a teacher's pay is worked out.
    A TA, CS etc will have a notional annual salary but will not be paid for 52 weeks per year. They get school weeks + 4 or 5 paid holiday weeks, reducing the full-time equivalent salary for each year. They are then contracted to work (usually) a maximum of 25 hours per week, further reducing their total pay as LA full-time for them is regarded as 37.5 hours per week.
    Their whittled-down annual pay is then paid out in 12 equal monthly payments, meaning that they cannot claim JSA in the holiday 7 or 8 weeks per year when they have not actually earned any wage. Their unpaid weeks are unspecified too .. falling in the holiday periods but no-one knows which of the weeks are ones that are paid for and which are technically unemployed weeks.
     
  6. mrkeys

    mrkeys Occasional commenter

    Strange that my salary advice slip gives me an hourly rate of pay.
    If I multiply that figure by 1265 then it actally equates to my annual salary.
     
  7. Fascinating, because if a teacherloses a day's pay (say due to strike action) it is calculated at 1/365 of annual salary.
     
  8. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    That's how my hourly rate, as an LA supply teacher is calculated. It represents 3 parts for the day worked (6.5 hours) nad 1 part for the pro-rata holiday pay. That's the same ratio worked by contracted teachers as 39 school weeks and 13 non-school weeks is the same as 3:1.
    Contracted teachers are employed year-round but there are limits on the number of days , and the number of hours on those days, that the employer/head can direct them to be doing set tasks. Teachers then fulfil their contractual duties by undertaking whatever work is still necessary ... but they can do it on days/part days of their choosing and and off the school site if they so wish.
    Contracted teachers essentially allocate themselves non-work time when school is not in session. Many work one or two days at the weekend during term-time and also extra hours before or after school (at home or on the premises) and then hope to free up the weeks when not in school.
    Others, like one of my relatives, will take their laptops on holiday and continue with planning at the pool-side!
     
  9. mrkeys

    mrkeys Occasional commenter

    But my given hourly rate is simpy just that.
    If I divide 1265 by 195 days it is a little bit less than 6.5 hrs.
    My hourly given rate multiplied by 1265 is my annual salary. Although this year the calculation is 1258.5. So that proves for this year at least we do at least get paid for the Jubilee hiliday!
    I do not have a ratio of 3:1 expressed in my pay slip at all.
    Am I therefore owed bundles of back pay? For almost 36 years? Spot the pig that can fly....

     
  10. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    They don't have to print the 3:1 ratio on your payslip! It's built into that hourly rate, made up of 1265 hours divided by 195 days.
    My LA agency pays based on annual salary divided by 195 and pays the full daily rate for each supply day worked, even if I just teach 5 1hr lessons and don't have planning and assessment to do. That pay rate is made up of 75% pay for the day worked and 25% pro-rata holiday pay.
    As I outlined before, that's the same ratio as a permanently employed teacher, who works 195 days over 39 weeks and has 13 non-school based weeks. 39:13 = 3:4 = 75%:25%
    If you are only claiming contact hours, you will be missing out on the full daily rate but your LA will probably argue that you are not working the 6.5 hours per day so don't have to be paid the full rate. If working for such an LA employer, I'd be claiming for all the Directed hours of the day (attendance at staff briefings, breaks other than lunch break, and any meetings etc. If working in Priomary where they expect you to mark work, I'd stay on after school to do it and claim that time - espcially if they won't allow you to work through the lunch break doing marking and then be able to claim that time). They normally put a cap on the number of hours you can claim for and that would be when pay for the day reaches Annual Pay divided by 195 days (194 this school year).
     
  11. mrkeys

    mrkeys Occasional commenter



    They don't have to print the 3:1 ratio on your payslip! It's built into that hourly rate, made up of 1265 hours divided by 195 days.
    My LA agency pays based on annual salary divided by 195 and pays the full daily rate for each supply day worked, even if I just teach 5 1hr lessons and don't have planning and assessment to do. That pay rate is made up of 75% pay for the day worked and 25% pro-rata holiday pay.
    As I outlined before, that's the same ratio as a permanently employed teacher, who works 195 days over 39 weeks and has 13 non-school based weeks. 39:13 = 3:4 = 75%:25%
    If you are only claiming contact hours, you will be missing out on the full daily rate but your LA will probably argue that you are not working the 6.5 hours per day so don't have to be paid the full rate. If working for such an LA employer, I'd be claiming for all the Directed hours of the day (attendance at staff briefings, breaks other than lunch break, and any meetings etc. If working in Priomary where they expect you to mark work, I'd stay on after school to do it and claim that time - espcially if they won't allow you to work through the lunch break doing marking and then be able to claim that time). They normally put a cap on the number of hours you can claim for and that would be when pay for the day reaches Annual Pay divided by 195 days (194 this school year).

    You have now really confused me.
    I work 6.5 hours at school each day. That is my directed time.
    I am only directed to be in school for 195 days.
    That is why my hourly rate is £x per hr x 1265 x 195.
    I am now of the opinion that teachers are not paid for holidays.
     
  12. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    That's your Directed Time, not the entirety of the time that any teacher works. I doubt that any teacher can get all their planning and assessment done in DT hours.
    Your contract will state that in addition to the 1265 hours of DT over a maximum of 195 days, you are also required to put in whatever work is necessary to fulfill your teaching duties. The additional time is at a time and place of your choosing and no head can direct you about what you must be doing out of the 1265 hours.
    The Head can tell you that at such a time in the school day you will be teaching class Y or supervising a playtime or attending an assembly or should be working on PPA.
    A part of your working time is specified.
    The hourly or daily rate related to 1265 hours or 195 days is there so that schools can work out the contract ratio of part-timers.
    You are employed throughout the year. Your pay covers the 190 pupil days, the 5 INSET days and the weeks not in school.
     

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