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Teachers cut loose by schools in the summer holiday?

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by cillia, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. cillia

    cillia New commenter

    How are folks in education meant to survive.? When I was a full timer I knew of a teacher (single parent) who used to go to food banks during summer! She had no other source of income and the school refused to take her full time. This is the first time for ages I am cut loose as they don't want to pay people through summer holiday. I used to do other work, that's not available anymore. I must say I am at a bit of a loss and I'm sure I'm not the only one. More and more schools are trying to duck out of paying teachers the long holiday periods that are pretty much the only perk of the job...
    install, Catgirl1964 and pepper5 like this.
  2. fairypenny

    fairypenny Occasional commenter

    Aren’t you getting paid over the holiday? Even when you’re part-time, your salary is still paid over 12 months.
    install and pepper5 like this.
  3. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Supply teachers?
  4. fairypenny

    fairypenny Occasional commenter

    Ah, that would make sense.
    thekillers1 and install like this.
  5. Bedlam3

    Bedlam3 Star commenter

    I saw a teachers post advertised a while ago. It was a permenent contract but term time only. I hope this isn't the way of things to come.
  6. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Either you are a supply teacher, so hardly the fault of any school if you don't get paid over the holiday, though I believe you can sign on. Or you have just resigned and didn't make it clear you were resigning from 31st August, rather than the end of the summer term. Still hardly the fault of a school.
    Are they? Where I live many were advertising for teachers to start in July and so be paid over the summer. This was a selling point of the advert.

    How can a school not pay over the summer? And of they do the teacher will have been paid more over the 11 months to compensate. When a teacher accepts a post, they accept an annual salary, when that is paid is largely irrelevant.
  7. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    State school or private?
  8. carterkit

    carterkit Occasional commenter

    I've always understood that teachers are only paid for 195 days a year. We are paid in 12 monthly installments but only paid for term time plus any legally accrued holiday pay which is a percentage of our daily rate. Or have I got that completely wrong?
  9. Jamvic

    Jamvic Star commenter

    slingshotsally, install and carterkit like this.
  10. install

    install Star commenter

    Yes. Teachers pay is usually divided over the 12 months to make it easier . It will be different for Supply teachers of course :)
    Jamvic and carterkit like this.
  11. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    I'm afraid you have it wrong. Full time teachers are paid an annual salary that pays them for 365 days a year but they can only be directed what to do by their employer for 195 of those (if on STPCD conditions). It was confirmed by the Supreme Court last year in Hartley v King Edward VI College [2017] UKSC 39. Teachers' pay accrues at 1/365th each day.

    Different for TAs on term time only contracts.
  12. ViolaClef

    ViolaClef Lead commenter

    Yes, I have seen this, too, recently - more than once. I’m afraid I can’t recall whether the adverts were from state schools, private schools or both, but I have certainly seen such adverts creeping into the TES.
    Also saw an advert specifically for an unqualified teacher... Hmmm...
  13. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    What's to stop a school employing someone to teach on a term-time only basis?
    install likes this.
  14. Flanks

    Flanks Senior commenter

    She wasn't full time, she was probably a supply teacher. The school had not cut her loose, and like many supply teachers or nqts she could sign on in the summer.

    From what I recall, you are a supply teacher and the school wanted to retain you through agency. You wanted more, but it was not forthcoming despite them giving you the impression that it would and you chasing them.

    Unfortunately this is part and parcel of the deal with supply teaching. While I don't doubt that many schools engage in nefarious practices with regards to employment, 'cutting teachers loose' in the holidays is not one of them.

    You have my sympathy for your current situation which is very unfortunate, but it doesn't match up to your headline I am afraid. This is a difficulty with being a supply teacher, rather than teaching in general.
  15. Sundaytrekker

    Sundaytrekker Star commenter

    No, that’s not so.

    As Rott Weiler says it’s an annual salary but you can only be directed on 195 days. To the OP, supply teachers paid through the LA are paid at 1/195 of the annual salary per day. This makes up for holiday pay. Agency pay is nowhere near so generous.
  16. JosieWhitehead

    JosieWhitehead Star commenter

    The first thing Maggie Thatcher did when she became Prime Minister was to stop all full-time appointments to Colleges of FE. I was just about to start full-time the following week. They could only take you on part-time. No payment during holidays, no teachers' pension and your employer didn't have to pay their share of your National Insurance contribution - so even if you paid a full stamp yourself, you found at 60 you only had half a pension. So I and many others are quite used to this. You even had your money stopped if your class took a coffee break. Is this the way to treat professional people?
  17. carterkit

    carterkit Occasional commenter

    Happy to stand corrected :) That is really interesting and I wonder how many people are aware of it. I know I have had unpaid leave deductions of far more than 1/365th in the past.
    agathamorse likes this.
  18. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    Re a couple of posts suggesting "signing on"
    It's a bit far from an actual solution to suggest "ach, they can just sign on in the Summer"
    If you are indeed entitled to anything it wont be processed until sometime after the Summer Holidays are over.
    And if you are indeed entitled to anything you may still decide not to take it if you are unlucky enough to experience Benefits staff who treat you no differently from a murder suspect.
    Such is the state of the misleadingly named "Benefits" system.
  19. afterdark

    afterdark Lead commenter

    This is a sign of how teaching is not really treated as a profession. Can you imagine GP's not being paid on their holidays? Teachers don't select the term dates or the holidays that fall between as a consequence.

    As for not being paid, you should conisder as many possible revenue streams as you can.

    You could start with https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/make-money/

    If you have an attic or house full of unused stuff then declutter by going to car boot sales.

    If you don't drive consider negotiating with a friend who has a car to share their car boot.

    Teaching summer schools is one option, many private schools offer summer schools prior to their students taking exams early etc.

    Register at a temping agency.

    Find a cash in hand job. Even if it sweeping the floor of a warehouse.

    I was once a supply teacherI know what it is like. I wish you best of luck Cillia, and also anyone else feeling the tight financial squeeze. Years of "austerity" have not improved things of course.
  20. Bedlam3

    Bedlam3 Star commenter

    It was a post working for a local authority as an advisory teacher.
    agathamorse, install and pepper5 like this.

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