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Teacher statistics

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by Bronco, Jan 15, 2012.

  1. The latest controversy in teaching has been Gove's proposals to make it easier to sack teachers. How noticeable that full time teachers and the unions are up in arms over this but they have made no protests at all in the past about the major problems facing supply teachers and the lack of work for them.
    Of course the Daily Mail has got in on the act and quoted a teaching force totalling 400,000. So let's look at some other figures such as the number of teachers in service which stands at 448,000 according to the DfE. That is a discrepancy of 48,000 but that can be explained by the DM rounding down.
    Now to quote the GTC there are 588,000 registered teachers. That gives a difference of 140,000 when comparing GTC and DfE figure or 188,000 compared with the DM.
    So what is happening to all those teachers who make up these differences; they must be unemployed, ( 49,000 according to the ONS) underemployed (47,000 supply teachers by GTC figures) or an unknown number of misemployed (those forced to take on other roles such as CSs or TAs)
    So maybe when many teachers are sacked there will be a plentiful supply of other teachers available to take over assuming of course that the HTs who will be doing the sacking will employ other teachers; how many of them will be more inclined to employ support staff instead.
    In March 2011 Gove issued a remit to the TDA for the training of 34,000 new teachers. Do we really need all these new teachers when there is already a surplus of qualified and registered teachers available?
     
  2. The latest controversy in teaching has been Gove's proposals to make it easier to sack teachers. How noticeable that full time teachers and the unions are up in arms over this but they have made no protests at all in the past about the major problems facing supply teachers and the lack of work for them.
    Of course the Daily Mail has got in on the act and quoted a teaching force totalling 400,000. So let's look at some other figures such as the number of teachers in service which stands at 448,000 according to the DfE. That is a discrepancy of 48,000 but that can be explained by the DM rounding down.
    Now to quote the GTC there are 588,000 registered teachers. That gives a difference of 140,000 when comparing GTC and DfE figure or 188,000 compared with the DM.
    So what is happening to all those teachers who make up these differences; they must be unemployed, ( 49,000 according to the ONS) underemployed (47,000 supply teachers by GTC figures) or an unknown number of misemployed (those forced to take on other roles such as CSs or TAs)
    So maybe when many teachers are sacked there will be a plentiful supply of other teachers available to take over assuming of course that the HTs who will be doing the sacking will employ other teachers; how many of them will be more inclined to employ support staff instead.
    In March 2011 Gove issued a remit to the TDA for the training of 34,000 new teachers. Do we really need all these new teachers when there is already a surplus of qualified and registered teachers available?
     
  3. Let's face it, their stats are questionable.
    You also have to remember that unions are only for contracted teachers.
     
  4. historygrump

    historygrump Senior commenter Forum guide

    I find the figures from respected organisations and in this I exclude the Dept of Education, are in truth a scandal which no one from the labour party to the media wants to talk about or expose, why? Even the TDA CEO stated that there are at least 16,000 teachers who have previously worked in education and now want to return, but are unemployed. People seem to ignore that the TES did a fantastic article on the fact that around 50% of the 2009 NQT cohort as failed to get a post, according to figures from the GTC and that it was expected to be the same for the 2010 cohort. Yet the TDA and the Dept of Education have no policies to get both the desperate job seeking supply teachers and the unemployed teachers into a job. Instead the government say there are a shortage of teachers and they must address this shortage as Bronco stated by training an extra 30,000 + people to become teachers (I hope this includes a section on fulling in JSA forms) and to allow OTT from certain commonewalth countries to teach with any restrictions in the UK from September 2012.
    I have and I know that many others have sought to raise the issue with politicians, but many teachers just moan about the lack of work. How many unemployed teachers or are struggling on supply as a labour MP who is either Stephen Twigg the shadow S of S for education or some other member of the labour educaiton front bench, and why have you not arranged to speak them on this issue? Any teacher that remains silent, is supporting the deprofessioning of the teaching professiona and the recruitment of the unqualified to teach.
     
  5. If they keep ignoring the problem, it will blow up in their face.
    IIRC, the figure was about 52%.
    That figure was at odds with my own research yapping to various staff and students in the SW. I suspect that there could have been some useful footnotes describing how the figures were collected/what considerations were made.
    I can't see any reasons for training so many staff.... unless it is about bums on seats for university, or creating a political lever to go playing with the payscales.
    We shall see.
     
  6. I would use the term "unbelievably insulated" to describe most contracted people's concept of the realities of the job market.
     
  7. historygrump

    historygrump Senior commenter Forum guide

    I would agree to some extent having spoken to teachers about the high number of unemployed teachers and the use of unqualified staff to teach, and they either look shocked or act like you are mentally insane. There is a tiny minority that know how dire it is for those teachers without a permanent post, but in many cases they are beaten into submission through fear of losing their jobs, because if they speak out about the use of unqualified staff for example the HT will find some way to sack them.
     
  8. What I feel the most disgusted about is that most colleges haven't got a clue either and a lot of students out on placement have been sold the "You'll have a place on the gravy train" line via the "95% of our students got jobs" (Presumably the 5% decided to go travelling or something) and the misconceptions fed to them via staff. The grapevine, as we all know favours students (as it did me, once) but there just isn't the musical chairs style flux of opportunities. I have a feeling there are an awful lot of NQTs who feel thoroughly ripped off by the system.

    Whilst the unions are on the side of those with seats on the train, I do believe their places are somewhat guaranteed, but an ever greater concentration of proven by paper and proven in practice students over some of the "stuff" in classrooms will eventually force a change..... However, the unions will fight it all the way. In reality, this over concentration of unemployed teachers is an opportunity to cut class sizes, increase the quality of staff, put measures which insure a decent level of quality, improving value for money in the system.


    However, a combination of ******** and cronyism will see that little changes.


    It is quite possible that the government and media might just ignore the whole situation. It's quite possible they knew about it (and all the parallels) all along.
     
  9. Sure mate, print away!!
    [​IMG]
     
  10. To complete that, you need some cross hairs like the old Public Enemy logo. Then it would be truly epic.
     
  11. Moony

    Moony Lead commenter

    Meh....to be honest with all the **** that Gove is spewing I wonder how long the permanent teachers will be that safe for. As it is for me finding out about the stuff that gove and the head of ofsted have been spewing has actually put me off the idea of being a permanent teacher ever again. I'd just got myself back to the point of feeling up for applying for a perm post following recovering from a crappy year in a school in which my face didn't fit and then i find that the rules of the game are being changed to favour that sort of thing happening more frequently to teachers.

    I've not looked into the teacher stats myself but from what i've seen on the forums here I don't see it being a big stretch of the imagination to accept them. I honestly dread to think what th education system in this country is going to look like in a few years time! I'm currently hoping I don't get an interview for the job I applied for recently (I don't know how much my views might change if I did get a letter) but I've only got this one shot at life and quiet frankly I want to enjoy it. I know that for the moment I can still teach and enjoy it as a supply teacher (for at least as long as that lasts) which should give me time to work on finishing a subject based masters degree that I started and then take things from there.
     
  12. I'd like to read the small print concerning their statistics. It's like the local training college saying "95% of our students got jobs". There is an outside chance that several schools hired 15 of them to do each post, or it's BS. Or, by "jobs" they mean "are not on the dole".
     
  13. historygrump

    historygrump Senior commenter Forum guide

    Stuart as some of the unemployed teachers have said the training colleges say that you will walk into a post and it only part way through the course they recognise or at the end of the course this as total bo*locks.
    The department of education is worse at this, in a reply to me via my MP they said that in 2010 (?) 97% of NQT's got jobs, but in the small print they also included people looking for jobs. This s despite the GTC saying 50% of NQT's did not get a post with 6 months of qualifying, who would you trust? The Dept of Education should run the DWP because then our unemployment levels would be the lowest in the world. It is all about creating an image of success (don't forget the bonus they get) and not letting on how they and the politicians have failed the teachers, educational system and the kids.
     
  14. I trained in 2005/6. I was one of the only ones who didn't get a job. My reasoning was that since I trained in Bristol and wanted to go back to Cornwall, I'd go back down and get my face known via doing supply. After a term, I was offered a perm contract, which I accepted. Back then, it was pretty good. The job market was busy, but there was enough flux to see that if you were a reasonable teacher with the right attitude, you got hired.

    I then went back into supply and was aware during 2008 that when I said "I haven't been here for a while" the TA's said (as you can always rely on TA's to give you some human interaction in the staff room) "They've got cover supervisors now". I didn't understand what they meant. A cover supervisor was the woman in the office who gave me the school's policy notes and a map and some "stuff" I'd need. It was all new to me.


    I always made a point of yapping to the other supply and students to engage myself in the profession as much as I could. (I found a lot of contracted staff viewed me as a bit of a leper, even if I was the smartest person in the building) I started to get the impression that things were drying up. As I found supply more sparse and the jobs start drying up, I made a point of keeping my ear to the ground. People were starting to struggle and I saw some real White Sheep Yes! Men who were brilliant in a classroom not get rehired for their year contract. They were the lucky ones. I bumped into all sorts of people who were either NQT's or recent FQT's on the supply circuit. I saw things changing.


    This got worse until 2009....I think it was. Supply had nearly dried up. I think I did 4 days in a term and was busy hibernating between writing application forms. I have no idea what happened to my good old supply chums I'd bump into, or how those students got on. I hear from the odd person and via "websites" that success has been rare for most of them.


    I just don't see the jobs happening. I was very familiar with how many were going as I was looking in every corner for them. I noted the increase of maternity leaves and year contracts. Hardly any permanent stuff came up.....well, a few did, but then you appreciate the actual amount of people qualifying in the area.


    As a scientist, I am aware that in the area you have Exeter PGCE, Devon SCITT, S DEVON GTP, MARJONS PGCE and BEds and Cornwall SCITT. Somewhere in the order of 100 new science NQTs EVERY YEAR. I won't even consider the ones from the previous years...... It doesn't Einstein to figure out the total mentalness of it all.


    I'm not sure of the amount of jobs which were advertised. I didn't keep a tally. I also know that not all of those on the council websites make it to the TES. I also know from firsthand experience a lot of those are advertised for show only.


    The surplus must be pretty damn huge, considering the rough orders of size.


    Per things about demographics and economics, I know that the govt likes to paint a rosy picture and ignore things which are difficult to stomach. Let's just put a sign up saying that everyone can earn £35k get 'em in the colleges, take their money and when they are out there in the big cold word armed with their bits of paper.....fukem, I'm alright jack.


    I can't be ***** to actually find out the statistics great detail and use them to raise awareness/inform the press/government AS YOU CAN BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE SITUATION IS


    Apply this across the board to all courses and you can soon see there is taxable economic activity to be gained by putting too many people through collage.


    At some point the "confidence" behind the education bubble will burst, with the associated financial fallout from hugely over-leveraged polyversities.


    Aaaaaaaanyway.
     
  15. Spelling police will have a field day there ^.
     
  16. Moony

    Moony Lead commenter

    That's ok, I'll distract them with the fact I'm running a dyslexic running without a speel chqueeker ;)

    I did a 2 year PGCE, my ITT was '06-'07, I did manage to get a job right at the end of my course but then I turned into one of the number of NQT's that had to leave their job cos they're face didn't fit. Got on supply and finished induction then managed to bag my 2nd perm job, this is the one that was the fun and games I've mentioned in another thread, and now I'm back on supply. I'm lucky enough to be in an area in which the supply doesn't seem to be drying up, or if it is I'm lucky enough to be seen as a good enough supply that it's not effected me yet.

    With the training situation being as it is I can only imagine that part of the over production is to compensate fo those that are leaving the profession. Of my ITT cohort 1/3 didn't make it to the end, then a few more didn't go for teaching jobs and whilst I've no idea of the numbers of my cohort still in teaching of the two people I have stayed friends with I'm the only one that is still a teacher. The thing about this that annoys me is that the government is peeing away a good proportion of talent doing this, how many decent educators will this country lose due to dissaffection? I know whats gone on recently is making me want to stay on supply whilst I use my free time to sort things out to be able to have other options, and I should imagine I'm not the only one thinking of doing that. As i said it's the government peeing away talent.
     
  17. That is bad Moony, sorry to read that. Sometimes I can't help but think, that the problem with teaching, is teachers. Some schools preach 'teamwork' and how 'friendly our staff are', but the reality is very different. I recall being in a dreadful hole of a school some years ago. The school had a 'stabilising' head brought in to help it out, the staff were young and angry (adequate at best). The staff sat in groups in the staffroom leaving the (many) supply teachers to sit in their own group by the door and near the phone. The many many callers, to both, were always for the cliques. The same school hired a gaggle of supply teachers to get them through an Ofsted, I was one, we got no thanks from any of the young teachers of course.
     
  18. Moony

    Moony Lead commenter

    Oh I've been lucky since then and worked in some good schools, randomly enough they've all been the ones I've gone in as a supply! I must admit I enjoy the feeling of being able to make a difference by going in and providing specialist subject teaching when covering for someone off long term.
     
  19. Nah I'll keep it as it is stuart dann (ya psycho killa' lol!). "I can't do nuttin for you dann..". 911 was epic, before its time;;
    but here is a piece 'ala PE which has got to be cause they'll slap me with another - 'Thispicturehasbeenremoved'.
    [​IMG]
    A piece of **** really but then the inspiation does come from you guys!!!!lol! https://community.tes.co.uk/forums/t/548848.aspx
     

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