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Teacher shortage? "Oh yes there is!" "Oh no there isn't!"

Discussion in 'Education news' started by chelsea2, Dec 9, 2015.

  1. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    Can both these positions be true?

    'Schools in England face a deepening problem in recruiting enough teachers, head teachers say.

    The National Association of Head Teachers said 59% of schools advertising for teachers "struggled" to get applicants and a further 20% failed completely to appoint anyone.

    Russell Hobby, leader of the NAHT, said it was clear evidence of a "crisis".

    "As well as concern about the number of teachers, our research has shown that schools are struggling to recruit people with the right kind of skills," said Mr Hobby.

    A Department for Education spokesman said: "The number and quality of teachers in our classrooms is at an all-time high.

    "We have over 1,000 more graduates training in secondary subjects - and record levels of trainees holding a first-class degree.

    "The vast majority of teachers stay in their roles for more than five years, and more than half of those who qualified in 1996 were still in the profession 18 years later.

    "The latest figures also show the number of former teachers coming back to the classroom has continued to rise year after year.

    "As a result, there are now 13,100 more full-time equivalent teachers than in 2010."'

    (parts of http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35040283)
  2. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    NAHT... voice of headteachers, some of whom have spent years driving out experienced staff.

    DofE ... government department who have successively undermined teaching in the UK, downgrading working conditions and spinning every story, whether Labour or Tory, so that it makes them look good [generally viewed as psychopathic behaviour if done in an individual].

    Not sure I trust either but I guess the NAHT has it by a smidge.
  3. HouseOfCommons

    HouseOfCommons New commenter

    Hi Everyone,

    Something that might be of interest in this conversation is the Education Committee's evidence session today into the supply of teachers.

    The Committee heard from
    • Professor John Howson, TeachVac
    • Martin Thompson, Executive Director, National Association of School-Based Teacher Trainers
    • Sam Freedman, Executive Director of Programmes, Teach First
    • James Noble-Rogers, Executive Director, Universities Council for the Education of Teachers
    • Russell Hobby, General Secretary, National Association of Head Teachers
    • Kevin Courtney, Deputy General Secretary, National Union of Teachers
    • Darren Northcott, National Official for Education, NASUWT
    • Emma Knights, Chief Executive, National Governors' Association
    • Nick Gibb MP, Minister of State, Department of Education
    Watch the session on Parliament TV.

    petenewton likes this.
  4. cissy3

    cissy3 Star commenter

    @chelsea2 I just came over to share the same link.

    I've just seen the Head of a girls' school in Kingston saying' ''If you can stand up, and breathe, then you can get a job here'' (or similar)

    Tried to find link, but I think it's too new as yet.
  5. Twinklefoottoe

    Twinklefoottoe Senior commenter

    I wish the media would tell the Govetnment that the number of teachers may well be at an all time high, but that is irrelevant.

    The U.K. Population has gone up over 10 million in the last decade. Every year, another three or four hundred thousand come here, and many children are in that number. The point is that the number of teachers hasn't risen at anywhere near the population explosion. That's why there is a massive problem.

    As for Heads complaining. Many of these hundred grand a year geniuses are trying to get highly qualified highly skilled e.g. Computer Scientists for a salary in the low £20K mark. Even the top salary is being squeezed down to £35K. Perhaps they should cut down their own salary, reduce the number of pointless SLT posts and start offering a proper salary in the £50K - £60K band, to reflect the ludicrous workload teechers have to face now.
  6. applecrumblebumble

    applecrumblebumble Lead commenter

    DFE are bunch of spivs - there is so much spin going they would say black was white if it suited.
    1000 more graduates being trained in the wrong subjects and more first class degrees means 21 compared to 20 last year. The vast majority stay in the job for more than 5 years means 60% versus 40% that leave. More than half still in post since 1996, that'll be 51% quite a lot being SLT by then. Numbers of teachers coming back into teaching increasing year on year could be down in double figures completely irrelevant. FTE probably means maternity cover return or similar PT adding up to FTE.
    I would say I am not a spiv and these figures are not accurate and were changed to protect the identity of accurate data which the DFE do not want to quote.
    chelsea2 likes this.
  7. snowyhead

    snowyhead Lead commenter

    I wrote to my MP (Cons) last month regarding the issue of supply agencies creaming off tax payers' money from the Education budget and how this could be avoided if schools were to recruit supply teachers directly ie place them on the payroll. The DBS up-date service makes it possible to carry out safer recruitment checks quickly and free of charge.

    This is part of my MP's response, which I received by post today:

    'Schools and local authorities (LAs) are responsible for the recruitment of supply teachers and it is up to them to decide whether to use private supply agencies to recruit temporary teachers, and what qualifications to require from those teachers. It is up to head-teachers to decide the best way children are taught when a teacher employed at the school is absent'

    '...This is a private commercial arrangement and an agency can set the rates of pay and conditions of employment...'

    '...It is for schools, head-teachers and local authorities to decide whether they use private supply agencies.'

    This indicates a complete lack of understanding by my MP and probably many others (regardless of the party they represent) of the current situation whereby recruitment agencies can charge a school over £50 per day more than it would cost to employ a supply teacher directly. The alternative is very simple: each LA to set up a supply teacher pool which schools can access to fill short and long term absences.
    Anonymity, cissy3 and petenewton like this.
  8. les25paul

    les25paul Star commenter

    Its the annual Christmas pantomine.

    "There are lots of jobs for teachers so give up your jobs, take out a loan and re-train for a satisfying and rewarding vocation that pays £65K. Santa Claus exists and lives in the North Pole along with Rudolph, who can fly, and there is a pot of gold at the end of the PGCE rainbow"
    petenewton likes this.
  9. snowyhead

    snowyhead Lead commenter

    The video from both panels of the parliamentary committee are worth watching - particularly the second where the witnesses included reps from each union. During the Q & A sessions 'retention' is bought up time and time again, in a very measured way. However, time and time again the MPs firing off the questions failed to take this on board believing that recruitment of suitable graduates is the issue. Huge disparity between what the DfE's workforce survey 2014 figures are saying and what is actually happening on the ground (or on these forum pages).
    cissy3 and lanokia like this.
  10. Yoda-

    Yoda- Lead commenter

    There are plenty of teachers. They just don't teach anymore. There are the disappeared. The ones that escape. The ones that retire early etc
    There is a shortage of cheap cannon fodder.

    Perhaps a new advert? Steve-Bells-If---16.01.20-004.jpg
    cissy3 and lanokia like this.
  11. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    That's what is so frustrating...

    Nothing else to say... just so frustrating.
    snowyhead likes this.
  12. snowyhead

    snowyhead Lead commenter

    All Nick 'believe the spin' Gibb did was quote figures from the Workforce Survey 2014. No real answers: 4,000 more teachers than in 2013 have returned to teaching (really?), 16,000 graduates were given bursaries to join the profession, £12K is a generous bursary (it doesn't even cover one year of undergraduate tuition fees and loans) we've increased the recruitment target for core subjects (whoopee - doesn't mean you're going to achieve them) this isn't evidence of a crisis or low morale in teaching...blah, blah, blah.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
    Anonymity and Yoda- like this.
  13. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    As I've said before on this forum - we simply cannot recruit for any teaching position we have, we get one applicant or none at all.

    We also have no money for supply teachers (another big issue).

    We couldn't even get a Science PGCE student this term !
    cissy3 likes this.
  14. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Strikes me he creates the spin.
  15. snowyhead

    snowyhead Lead commenter

    Definitely. He has to believe it, no one else with a brain does.
  16. schoolsout4summer

    schoolsout4summer Star commenter

    If there was a shortage of teachers, then conditions would improve and wages would rise. There is not, so they don't. This is the reality. This is a fact of commercial life.
  17. Compassman

    Compassman Star commenter

    You are Nick Gibb and I claim my £5!
    snowyhead likes this.
  18. Yoda-

    Yoda- Lead commenter

    Education is not a free market. If it was , demand and supply economics might work for teacher supply.
  19. snowyhead

    snowyhead Lead commenter

    Oh dear.

    There is currently a shortage of trained and experienced midwives but it hasn't driven up working conditions and salaries, BECAUSE BOTH TEACHERS AND MIDWIVES ARE PUBLIC SERVANTS. When education and the health service are privatised your ideas might be viewed as sensible ones.
    Anonymity, cissy3 and Yoda- like this.
  20. Jolly_Roger1

    Jolly_Roger1 Star commenter

    This Head should have said, "''If you can stand up, and breathe, and work for nothing, or very little, then you can get a job here'. Even I have been contacted by schools and agencies about A level chemistry teaching but none have hit upon the idea of offering some sort of inducement, such as some money.
    les25paul, josepea and Yoda- like this.

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