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Tayyip Erdogan

Discussion in 'Personal' started by lanokia, Apr 4, 2016.

  1. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    And still the responsibility for the atrocity would lie solely with those who carried it out.
    You can say that it happened for this reason that reason and you'd be right but the ultimate responsibility lies with the perpetrators
     
  2. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Responsibility is not a black and white issue... yes, Ultimate responsibility lies with the terrorists but degrees lie elsewhere and denying that [on a wider scale] permits governments to abrogate their role in the situation.
     
  3. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    I can agree with that to a degree so won't argue further
     
  4. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    My point [which might have sounded more absolute initially than intended] is that ... for example... the Blair/Bush governments bear a degree of responsibility for the long term rise of ISIS...

    Does that mean I think Tony Blair should be trial for Paris? Of course not... but I feel a danger that lies in the narrative 'the sole responsibility lies with the perpetrator' in these sorts of incidents is that it makes a detailed understanding difficult.

    Anyway, I suspect we are at apples and oranges... both fruit... just the nuances...
     
  5. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    Might be

    I am merely applying the now standard definition of madness to all my contributions on here :D
     
  6. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    It is madness... what can drive someone to these acts... I really don't know... [and yes I know some people will want to say 'Islam']
     
  7. silvaran

    silvaran Occasional commenter

    Some other news from Ankara this week. Fences have been fixed and good neighborliness restored

    Turkey has apologized to Russia for shooting down its jet.
    Israel and Turkey have kissed and made up over the Mavi Marmara incident.
     
  8. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Cheers for that @silvaran

    Maybe Tayyib is learning?
     
  9. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Was discussing the possibility of Turkey joining the EU with my brother in law. He's a major in the Cypriot army. He doesn't think it should happen as long as Turkey is militarily occupying the territory of an existing EU member... I.e. Cyprus.

    Made sense to me.

    They're worried here about the instability Tiny Tayyib has wrought.
     
  10. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    Well the EU was acting as a motivation for Turkey to become more modern. When it takes a turn like this, it is far less likely to be accepted. The EU might have its faults, but it has civilized standards, and being quite a big organization involving many countries with established democracy and decent values it is quite hard for a tinpot dictator or nutter to pervert decency elsewhere.
     
  11. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Meanwhile Tayyib carries on as before... now arresting peace advocates... because we all know how dangerous they are...

    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/08/turkey-jailed-world-renowned-author.html

    Curse you peace advocates for... erm... yeah... not being on message?
     
  12. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    What do you reckon @silvaran ? ... lot of online speculation that Turkey is shifting from a US axis to a Moscow axis... possible?
     
  13. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Burndenpark

    Burndenpark Star commenter

    @lanokia

    What happened to a certain poster's thread on Sunday about Turkey supporting ISIS?
     
  15. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Oh it wasn't just me then? I went looking for that thread and couldn't find it...

    Poooof... vanished!
     
    Burndenpark likes this.
  16. silvaran

    silvaran Occasional commenter

    Dont know. But it can only be Turkish self interest. Erdogan has been talking about 'safety zones' on Syrian soil adjacent to Turkey for a few years, perhaps now he's actually put it in place. Perhaps some of his former commanders who were were involved in the coup attempt were against such a move and were just too far pro-American. Also Domestically he's been freed up to show he really is 'taking on terrorists' but such a limited incursion in reality will do nothing except provide some temporary good news footage.
    So Turkey is playing a game moving between rather than taking sides with all the other players, all of them are in flux.
    But Assad, Russia, Iran and Hezbollah are in the ascendancy and the regime change Western proxies are not.
    The British media don't seem to be really reporting the ongoing massive battle for Aleppo - the largely Western backed 'Free Syrian' elements are about to be comprehensively defeated by the regime. I may be wrong but think the Turks don't want to be excluded from the probable winners in Western Syria where it really matters.
     
    lanokia likes this.
  17. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Thanks for that @silvaran .... Yeah agreed on the pitiful state of UK media coverage. Piecemeal and incoherent spring to mind.
     
  18. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Tiny Tayyib... the most insecure despot ever... quivers his fist at ISIS once again

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-37332789

    upload_2016-9-11_13-15-1.png

    Few points Tayyib...

    1. How about your forces stop attacking the Syrian Kurds then, who've proven to be one of the few effective actors in the field against ISIS?

    2. I know this is hard to change now... but what if you'd not armed and funded ISIS in the first place? Crazy I know... but these sort of DUMB actions have a habit of coming back and biting you on the proverbial donkey.
     
  19. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/27/boris-johnson-says-britain-whey supported ISIS with weapons shipments ill-now-help-turkey-join-eu-despite/

    So after writing a poem about Erdogan and a goat... Boris Johnson has promised Britain will do all in it's power...
    to help Turkey join the EU.

    Hang on, if being in the EU was bad for Britain why are they trying to get Turkey into the EU? Oh wait, because it'll be bad... no, terrible... for the EU [as Turkey presently stands].

    And he praised Turkish policy in Syria ... LOL... :D:D:D:D... so was that the policy where they supported weapons sales to ISIS or the sale of oil by ISIS to fund their attacks? Or is it the policy of overthrowing a secular government to replace it with a more Islamist one [admittedly the same as Western policy]... or the policy of invading northern Syria to ensure YPG Kurdish forces didn't link up their enclaves to better present a united force against ISIS forces?
     
  20. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

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