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Taking Teaching out of university and into schools! Should it happen or not?

Discussion in 'Primary' started by traineeteacher74, Dec 27, 2010.

  1. <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td class="post">I would like to know people's opinions whether they are NQTs, trainees in university at the moment, already qualified teachers and any government personel who have already gone through the education system of learning how to become a qualified teacher and see what your thoughts are on taking teacher training out of university and putting it into schools. I am studying in university at the moment doing teacher training and am seeing the benefits of how teacher training should be in the university rather than in schools. Already I can see a flaw in putting teacher training into schools, as it is going to take up too much of already qualified school staff to help trainee's complete what needs to be learnt, whilst sorting out all of the other paperwork that comes with teaching, lesson plans, marking and paperwork to do with the running of external exams etc. I have also noticed that all of the "advantages" that the government has pointed out within taking trainee teaching courses out of the university and into schools is a ready being taught within university, as i am learning it at the moment. Why does schools need to take on even more pressure of teaching when they have enough on their plate as it is?
  2. inq


    As a student in a university training to be a teacher you would do well to learn to proof read your work and make sure your grammar is correct.
    Some schools like having students; it is a school's choice as to whether they train students as much as it is a student's choice as to whether they apply for a school based or university based course.
  3. tafkam

    tafkam Occasional commenter

    Should school-based practice play a huge role in teacher training? Absolutely.
    Should all teacher training be removed from universities? Absolutely not!
  4. I am currently teaching in my third year since qualifying on a PGCE at university, and have to say I have learnt more in the last few years doing it first hand than I did on the course at university, and also did so on placements/practises too.
    In my case, I had already done a degree in Early Childhood Studies at university so a lot of the content on the PGCE was covering what I had already learnt, some parts of the university side of the course were useful but some could have been done via the universities blackboard online site, with powerpoints and notes/handouts being shared and therefore more time spent on practise, of which I only did 16 weeks across 3 schools.
    I have recently had two mature PGCE students on teaching practise in my class, and found that they were very knowledgable with 'text book' information and what they had been taught at university, but they soon learnt that most of that goes out of the window when you are actually in class doing it first hand, so from this and from my experience I do feel that there is more time in schools actually need for those training to be teachers, but that there does need to be some communication between students and universities, as their knowledge and experience also offers support towards training.
  5. I am in my final year of a 4 year BEd. As much as I have enjoyed my time at uni and some aspects of the course I really think a lot more time should be spent in school. The placements are where we learn most and really get to grips with the job.

  6. With regards to issues surrounding pupils being taught by 'unqualified' teachers.
    I am a trainee teacher and have been placed in three schools where I have been very closely monitored and have even seen 2 students ejected from schools, as they had fallen below a suitable standard. Placements are offered with a view to enriching students skills and helping us to become the high quality teachers that pupils deserve. I find school placements are my favourite part of the ITT course for this reason.
    I could not imagine graduating and being given my first appointment having never had any teaching practise. I think it is important to find a balance between university and school based training.
  7. I don't think being 'unqualified' in the context of being a trainee teacher is what we need to worry about as students are working under the guidance of a trained professional. However, a major concern should be the number of lessons being taken by completely 'unqualified' personnel. PPA being taken by LSAs every week - how can this be?
    As to the topic of the post, in my opinion, schools should most definitely not be responsible for teacher-training.

  8. I know this is out of topic but in regards to my initial message, I was in a rush when writing this as I had to go out and could not go through and sort out my spelling and grammer issues. I do however feel that if you don't think that my writing or anyones for that matter is up to standard, I know myself that I would like people to keep opinions to themselves. This is a forum and does not always have to be so precise and perfect.
  9. I feel that when learning in university, I am getting the most out of my time there which I can then take into practice. I feel that the theory we learn in university is very helpful to the way that I plan when I do short lessons out on practice, I myself feel that taking teacher training into schools will not give trainee's the best chance of learning the theory behind teaching as well as the different sort of pupils you may come across.
  10. <u>SCITTs rock. So do GTPs and the Teach First.</u>
    The best of both worlds. Support and academics, but more time in class with children. Huge number of observations from practising teachers.
    All highly valued <u>training</u> (as opposed to academic learning) is a mixture of on the job experience with a mentor, backed up with academics.
    Law. Sandhurst. Medicine. Ordination as a priest/ rabbi/ iman. Counselling. I could go on.
    The extra academics should be a follow up. Perhaps following the MtL scheme.
    Calling teaching a trade was a bad choice of language, considered it came a week after implying that all teachers have third class degrees.
    But the fact is, it is a practical vocation.
  11. I have an interview with a Primary SCITT in January, and although the places are much more difficult to obtain after extensive research I felt that it was the best way to train.
    I have spoken to many teachers, and working within a secondary training school I have seen probably 80+ student teachers over the past 5 years some of which have been utterly rubbish!! For some it was because they had got into teaching because "I didn't know what to do with my degree" and for others it was because Uni had not prepared them for the realities of teaching. I know of several that have dropped out or not gone into teaching after finishing their PGCE because they really had no idea!! The teachers that I work with that have gained a PGCE through a SCITT said they felt they were better prepared and therefore in a much stronger position when it came to applying for their first 'real' job. One of the SCITT trained teachers I know became a HOD after just 2 years of teaching.
    I feel there is nothing better than learning a job on the job (whatever that job might be), and while I agree it puts pressure on the training school, they choose to do this. The schools that offer placements through the SCITT I have applied to all have 'outstanding' or 'good with outstanding features' OFSTED reports, so having trainees through their classrooms is obviously not affecting them greatly.
    I think more time in schools would certainly sort the wheat from the chaff, one trainee who was phenomenal in their subject and knew all the theories etc, an exceptionally clever person who was doing very well at the Uni based PGCE stuff, but they had no people skills at all. As soon as they were in a classroom they floundered completely, couldn't relate to the kids at all, talked right over their heads, had no classroom management skills etc etc. On one occassion they explained a practical rather than demonstrate it to a Year 11 class and even the A* kids had no idea what they were expected to do...I had to go round the class and explain the task and help them set each practical up!! This person even said to one Yr11 student that asked for help with a problem that had been set them (that incidentally had been copied from a degree level subject book) that "You must be stupid...so-and-so can do it!". Thankfully they didn't complete their PGCE because although on paper they were amazing they just didn't have the spark you need to teach.
  12. andrew07

    andrew07 Occasional commenter

    J/K, I just had to say that LOL. No offense Pink Flipflops and you don't have a bad remark to say but seriously there are some people who do ride down people's comments (NOT YOU).
  13. I wouldn't really care either way!
    Anyway, genuinely, what is it about these threads that brings out all the randoms...never to be seen ever again.
  14. andrew07

    andrew07 Occasional commenter

    Yeah, they can run into something off course but I sent you a private message. I actually thought you were someone else who changed their name.

    Take care.
  15. I am currently doing a PGCE at university. I personally feel that the balance of school/uni based work could be tilted more in favour of school but i would not want to give up the link to the university completely. My uni tutors are great, they have the benefit of having years of school experience, in depth knowledge of their subject and the advantage of having feedback from previous trainees. They are able to give a broader view of education and different types of school environment than i would gain from training in one or two schools. I think it is difficult to teach to the best of your ability without solid subject knowledge, which i gain from specialists at university. Yes, there is a lot of theory on the uni course but i find it helpful to know the theory behind the policies in schools so that i can question them and find the best way of implementing them that works for me and my class.

    If trainee teachers spend all their time in schools, they don't benefit from the support of other trainees in similar positions, which is helping me a lot this year. There are people on my course who don't have supportive mentors in school at the moment but this would be much worse if there was no one to give a second opinion or intervene where necessary (such as a uni based tutor). The partnership schemes between schools and universities protect both students and schools. Also, trainees place extra pressure on teachers and schools and this would only increase if they were responsible for the whole package of training.

    There are people who may benefit more from 'on the job' training, but there are also people more suited to an academic uni based course and i hope that both of these options will continue to be available to prospective teachers.
  16. As a PGCE student, I find myself wishing there was more of a classroom element to my course. I could have done a GTP, but I've worked as an LSA with a GTP teacher, and I don't know if they were poorly managed or mentored, but the experience looked horrible - they ended up being a FT teacher as well as a student, and struggled with the workload.

    I chose PGCE over SCITT because I thought I would get some useful input. It's true, there has been some, but perhaps not as much as I would have liked. I think (and this may just be an issue with my particular course provider) that in university, there can be a tendancy to simply provide trainees with a KS2 subject knowledge for a particular subject - especially in Foundation subjects. There doesn't seem to be as much information on theory and how to approach it. Perhaps this is arrogant, but about 90% of what we have been "taught" was stuff I already knew.The other 10% I could have found in a book.

    It's been a while since I left university, so perhaps my academic skills are not as good as they should be. I do understand the importance of understanding the research around a subject, but reading and summarizing papers feels like a waste of time I could have spent planning.

    My classroom skills are really what need work (I won't deny it!) - perhaps I am another "good on paper" candidate, who fails in class. I found it hard to get to grips with a class in just four weeks. This means that the first placement feels a little unfinished, somehow - that I didn't gain enough through the experience. I don't really feel confident about teaching KS1, as I had such a short time there. I also suffered from the "absent teacher", where only the lessons which had to be observed were, so perhaps I didn't improve as much as I could have, with guidance. I don't think that the experience had no value, though, as I taught myself quite a bit, but muddling through is never quite as efficient.

    The timing of the placements seems to be poor this year. Placements which fall at the end of the Winter term are disrupted by snow and school closures - a genuine experience perhaps, but not a very useful one. Worse is that opportunity for lesson observation (how the teacher approaches X differently is something I would have liked to see) was often taken up with Nativity rehearsals.

    In an ideal world, I think placements would be longer, and would have to be properly supported by a dedicated, experienced mentor-teacher. Teaching practice wouldn't just be cover and frees, enthusuastic students would not just be mined for resources (I've seen QTs STEAL resources a trainee teacher had made!). Planning would be supported, and as many lessons fedback as possible, especially in the first teaching placement. As for the worry that trainees/NonQTs are teaching children and ruining their education, a sort of training-wheels approach, where the trainee is LSA, then teaches maybe a starter, or a plenary before moving on to full lessons then days of lessons would be best. That way, they could have less of a disruption to the class.
    Of course, this is just what I want, and other experiences may differ. As well, I am pretty aware that much of this isn't really feasible in terms of time and resources.
    Hey ho.

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