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Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by sa242004, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. cheesypop

    cheesypop Senior commenter

    You have said yourself that you don’t have safeguarding concerns. Therefore ofsted would not be interested.
    If it was a local authority place, the local authority might be interested in the poor admin. However as it seems to run itself, however badly, I’m not sure who you would complain to or what you think you would get from it.
  2. FarSideofParadise

    FarSideofParadise Occasional commenter

    [This comment/section/image has been removed for breaching our Community Guidelines/Terms and conditions]

    Sounds like there isn't anything you can do. Chalk it up to a bad experience and move on.
  3. Eamaz

    Eamaz New commenter

    I agree the post was too long and had some errors in it but does it really need pointing out? The OP was obviously quite distressed and I imagine the typing out of it was quite cathartic for them. Do they really need kicking when already down?
  4. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    The main point I get from you is that you are very annoyed about all of this. Well, that's completely understandable if you have been messed around, and even more understandable if it is about employment and pay. Like anybody, you have a need for stability and honesty, and you say that has not happened this time. That is hard for you.
    However, it also seems to me that it is personal annoyance fuelling your need for redress, rather than a concern for the future of this school and other people they might mess around. You have gone into a huge level of detail which was superfluous to the actual wrongs they may have done, and also you have mentioned the arsenal of personal contacts at your disposal who are happy to side with you. You'd do that if annoyed, I understand that, I might do the same myself, but actually if you had a legal or formal case to present, these things would stand against you.
    Formally complaining requires a very compact list of wrongs, which need to be wrong on paper too. And you need to be able to recognise and state these wrongs for yourself without adding that others can back you up. So if you were to currently take your "case" anywhere, I'm not sure you could do it. In fact the response you would get would probably make you more annoyed. I present you this realism with kindness.
    For this reason, for your own well being and peace of mind, the advice to drop it is pretty good. It means you can focus on a new start somewhere, and with the good things to come, you wont have to suffer a sense of injustice which is clearly at the front of your mind right now.
    If you remain worried about the future of people who are yet to have dealings with the school, you can rest assured that if they continue in this way it will bite them in the bum.
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
    sa242004, wanet, Laphroig and 4 others like this.
  5. Jessaki

    Jessaki Occasional commenter

    OP you may have two people in your life telling you to pursue it, but there are educators here with years of experience telling you to let it go.

    It sounds like it is a private school, they can do what they like. Also Ofsted will not be interested in a private school, they are only interested in state run organisations. If it´s a special school, which is run by a private company, but government funded then Ofsted may have an interest, but only if there is a safeguarding issue.

    You do seem disappointed and frustrated that you have been messed around, this is understandable, but sometimes we just have bad experiences with potential employers, who are not good a communicating with you, and you have to just chalk it up to experience. The school will say your job offer was subject to satisfactory references, as all job offers are. Next time you are made a job offer, ask for confirmation of the verbal offer in writing and confirmation of how it / when it becomes a firm offer. Then you know. You have evidence.

    They sound terribly disorganised. Move on. Do not waste any more time on them. You will not get the closure you want, by pursuing this. Focus instead on getting another job and be done with it. You will be happier in the long run.
    Rott Weiler likes this.
  6. jammiejimmy

    jammiejimmy New commenter

    [This comment/section has been removed for breaching our Community Guidelines/Terms and conditions]
    poppydaisyrose likes this.
  7. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    This sounds like a non-UK school.

    If you want to take action, you need to consider what you want the end result to be. Do you want them to honour your offer of a post there? Really?
    If you want to stop this happening to others you are unlikely to be able to do so. The school is quite justified in not continuing the employment if references aren't in order or similar.

    I understand you being annoyed, but all you can do is move on and find another post.
  8. GLsghost

    GLsghost Star commenter

    That's not true. There is no right to claim unfair dismissal (unless for an automatically unfair reason) or a redundancy payment without two years continuous service.

    Many rights kick in from day one, including for breach of contract, which is what I gather the OP might be complaining about here.
    Piranha likes this.
  9. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    I'll ask again, @sa242004 are you in a union? If so consult them asap.
    Piranha likes this.
  10. Happy-Hogan

    Happy-Hogan New commenter

    Technically he would be owed a month's pay for notice, I suppose depending on the contract.

    However, yes, someone is owed the notice period on a job, regardless of length of service.

    There is no way however the OP would be able to get anything more. If he put in a claim, the employer would be breathing a high sigh of relief they have dodged a bullet.

    How expensive do you think that claim would be to litigate?
  11. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    I don't think that is the situation here although there's not enough information from OP to be sure. My reading of post 1 is that the legal contract of employment never started and OP never took up any employment with them or did any work for them. [OP apparently went in for a 'volunteer day' prior to date when contract would have started, but never started actual employment.]

    A conditional job offer was made, conditional on the school receiving satisfactory references. The school says, it appears, that satisfactory references were not received, therefore the conditions of the conditional offer were not met, therefore the contract never came into force [that's a non-lawyers explanation!] If that's the case the question of notice period or breach of contract would not arise. I think OP disputes some of the facts about whether the reference was supplied but only OP's union rep or lawyer with access to all the documents could advise whether that argument has any merit.
    Piranha and GLsghost like this.
  12. sa242004

    sa242004 New commenter

    Hi thanks to everyone who is trying to help in a positive way? I apologize again for my !outpost but I have all the info I could. This job I shot based on any conditional offers. For nearly a month I've been trying to get a meeting ever since the manager mailed me told mpe she can no longer offer me the job. I have writtena complaint Lester to be sent to the manager and admin as there's no senior person to them that I can get in contact with! I tried mailing the school trustee as I can't get in touch with head teacher this trustee has not responded.
    I also contacted offsted and department of education. Offsted have told they can't do anything much like what other posters said. But department of education......informed it the school hasn't even updated them about moving to a new location, the man in the phone said "they should of informed us"..... He said they can't unfortunately do anything- headache it's an independent school....! So this school has no head teacher no senior staff member to the manager? And people are telling me to let go? I'm not being early I'm being actually serious. The school should have a head teacher and deputy headteacher atleast! Not only that, unfortunately I'm now out of. Amin and have to look for supply teaching work because all the actually positions have more orlessgone! Of course I'll keep looking but this isn't the time as neither of them have been taken. Signed up with ana agency again and still looking. I haven't sent the complaint letter waiting to seek legal advice first then if a court case is the know way...?I meaning going to do thatsjust too much. I just wanted to acknowledge what's been done, I wanted a meeting to show that I did my best etc. Of course I don't want to still work for them....
  13. sa242004

    sa242004 New commenter

    Sorry for the typos I can't see the edit button. *The job offer was not* based on a conditional offer*
  14. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Nobody here will be surprised to learn that neither Ofsted nor DFE are interested.

    I doubt there is any further advice that we can give here. Everyone has advised you to forget it and move on but it seems you don't want to do that. Your choice, your time. Only a lawyer with access to all your paperwork could say if you had a legal case.

    You say the job offer isn't conditional but that's not consistent with your repeated complaints about references. If the job didn't require acceptable references before you could start why did the school say they hadn't received them? It seems inconceivable to me the job offer didn't require acceptable references but that's for your legal advisor to advise you on.

    Have you consulted your union? What did they say?
  15. Jessaki

    Jessaki Occasional commenter

    1) If the school were to offer you the job again would you take it? 2) And if so, would you then continue to pursue the Department of Education to investigate them for not having a Headteacher or a Deputy Headteacher? Because if the answers to 1) and 2) are yes and no, then you are going about this for the wrong reasons. Also, be aware, people within education talk. As I have said you are right to feel aggrieved and to be angry about being messed around, that is understandable. But you will not get the closure you want by going down this path.
  16. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Now we know this is a private school I don't believe there is any requirement to have a headteacher or deputy headteacher. I know a Montessori school that doesn't. The legal requirement to have a headteacher applies only in State schools. Private schools have a Proprietor (owner). The Proprietor has to be 'approved' by DFE, but how they organise the day to day management is up to them - no headteacher is required, nor does the Proprietor personally have to have QTS or be a trained teacher.

    OP keeps saying the school should have a headteacher but there is no such legal requirement.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
  17. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    I think it sounds more like a free school, in the early stages of being set up, though it seems to swap between college, daycare centre and school.

    To be honest, a generally decent standard of written English is required to be a TA
    [This comment/section/image has been removed for breaching our Community Guidelines/Terms and conditions]

    I imagine by now admin and senior staff have sent copies of all communication to the trustee, who has almost certainly advised them to simply ignore any further advances from the OP. They have made it clear there is no job and so there is nothing to be gained by continuing a dialogue.

    I cannot imagine for a second the DfE employ people 'in' a phone who would say "They should of informed us", nor who would criticise a school to a disgruntled non-employee.

    I'm not sure I think this is real...
    FarSideofParadise likes this.
  18. grumbleweed

    grumbleweed Lead commenter

    As I said in my reply on the early years forum, they are required to inform OFSTED of a change of premises and this is what you could could complain about if you wished. I would still be checking if they are legally registered bad a school and if there are any inspections. Ofsted would only log a complaint and have that info available at next inspection. They would not drop everything and dash out there unless it was something very serious .
    It's correct they don't have to have a headteachet, just a proprietor, but they do have to meet certain standards which can be found online.
    Yes I'd let it go but if you are determined not to, at least know your facts .
    Rott Weiler likes this.
  19. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Seems a weird complaint for someone to make though.
  20. lillipad

    lillipad New commenter

    This thread is an incredible read. Thoroughly engaging, although a little hard on the brain.
    Lalad and caterpillartobutterfly like this.

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