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Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by sa242004, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. sa242004

    sa242004 New commenter

    Hello all, not sure if this was posted already i cant seem to find it... Basically the point of this long post is:
    I was offered a job in july and it was withdrawn without any actual reason as I disputed it nothing has come of it.

    I have a very serious dilemma. I’m unsure who to contact. My aunt is a barrister that used to work for the CPS, but this problem is a little embarrassing as I feel part of it may be my fault for trusting these people. I was GIVEN a job, it never actually started and nearly 3 months later-waiting to start in the ‘school’ I was MAILED by the ‘manager ND) and told she can no longer let me join the school. Her reasoning is very complicated so please bear with me as I explain. Her mail read that I don’t have the job because my ‘references were not given on time’. I was never given an actual deadline. I had a verbal contract with these people...how is it legal for them to just take away a job position I held for 3 months? I know i never actually started at the school but still, I never looked for any other school positions because of this.
    Basically, in July 2017; I was offered a job in the early years . This was after a good interview, followed by a trial. I was not told what my role would be as it was an open role either in reception/nursery. Unfortunately there is no contract. I asked repeatedly during August, I didn’t even salary information or what rol e I would have. The interviewer (fake name) ND, texted me and said that the ‘admin’ would contact me ‘with my information pack’- but she was “unsure of my salary. This ND is a manager for her deferment, of course she would know. This particular school had moved location 4 times, when I had the interview it was a ‘temporary’ location that looked like a house but was not I can’t explain it –sorry. I actually did not mind even working in t his temporary location, I really just wanted a good job. The following months proved how these 2 PERTICULAR INDIVIDUAL people run the school.
    I was invited into a whatsapp group chat with all the teachers, by the 2nd interview lady; who doesn’t need to be named. I contacted this 2nd interviewer during august & asked if she needed my help. This school was now moving for the 4th time from their temporary ‘school’ location to a building. But they had not found one yet! When they finally found one, ND 9the manager Im having a problem with) *asked* if anyone could come in to *help* out in the school. This was not a formal request or anything. So I went... The school had moved to a tuition centre..it is a small building that was literally in shambles inside. They had plumbers working on the ground floor bathroom; the upstairs bathroom had paint and was so disgusting-i couldn’t use it! But they had children using this unsafe bathroom. The fact that they had children already there was really stupid. They had years 1 and above, something like that- I’m not too sure. Now my mistake in this is allowing something like this and just thinking it’s ok. Looking back it really wasn’t. I saw a child coming down from the bathroom. As i went myself upstairs I saw how big the door was and the horrible mess in the bathroom. I wandered how safe it was for small children to be suing messy adult bathrooms with such heavy doors I had a little trouble opening them. I did mention the UNCLEANSINESS of the bathroom to college...she didn’t respond to it. I had to go out to use the bathroom in a gym lol. I came back & ND said –“(my name) has already had HER 15 minute break- who wants to go for theirs..?” LOL! I assumed this was volunteering at no point in time was this said to be a working day... I had only 30 mins of lunch etc. During that day I was told by ND, that my DBS had not started- I was so extremely shocked. It was the last 10 days of August we were due to start in September! I stayed back late went to this so called admin.
    This admin showed me initial application I filled & brought in with me back in July. One of my references the letter was written over again- so to make it clear as there was a mistake underneath it. 100% it is eligible to read, she said she wrote it as something different and thats why she never heard back from them! I went away really anxious about getting my references in. The following weeks the admin showed me how she really was. Im not insulting any admins here I’ve done similar work and my family is in admin too. I know I would not conduct myself as she had done. This admin would take ages to reply to me, she took ages to send me so called ‘pack’...I never actually received a pack! The truth of the matter is this admin was on holiday prior to me seeing her during my volunteering days! So is this why she took so long to send my references, because there is no reason from July-to end of August that a reference for a daycare centre that is open-would take that long! Why did she never contact me? Answers she or her so-called manager never gave me. I actually ended up getting the daycare reference she couldn’t read properly! Within one day of ringing up the company, thank God. I now have a copy for myself. I kept contacting ND, and asking when I would be starting, She must of got tired as she replied in such a rude was to me. She basically said that “do not contact me through whatsapp again please contact through SCHOOL admin”. Exactly that not “contacts ME” but contact “school admin EMAIL”! I responded THAT I WAS MERLY GOING TO TELL HER THAT HER ADMIN EXPLAINED WHY HER SCHOOL NEEDED A NEW DBS...As I already had a current valid DBS which they were refusing to accept. This message was not that rude. I did receive a message from ND saying for m “to concentrate on getting my references this week” ...Nothing more nothing less. No dead line -no get it done by the end of the week or your fired etc.... I can get verbatim what she said and post it later as its already too long this post sorry:(L I got a message during end of September from ND saying this “ You cannot start on Monday at work because i CAN NOT BE AROUND CHILDREN BEACSUE i DO NOT HAVE A DBS”. I was so angry I called her , no answer; called Admin no answer even though she was online on whatsapp lol. The worse about that Sunday was that all of the teachers went in to the school; they ordered pizza and were talking about in the same whastgroupp lol I was in! I never even told about coming in on Sunday the nerve. I had the children’s name tags with me, I messaged ND about me not starting the next day no answer not even a read! I got a call from my college I was so upset, she basically told me she sounded like she was in a rush saying “give me your address I need to pick the name tags up ...! I asked her if ND was with her, SHE SAID YES...LOL. But i kept trying pushing on. I even managed to find a job in October, Thank God. It’s a temporary one most likely ending very soon in a call center.... No school jobs as Ive started my search a few days ago because of this-
    The final straw was 2 or 3 weeks ago; I get an EMAIL from ND saying ** “ We can no longer give you this position as you never gave in your references in on time “! ** I was so shocked I rang ND, no answer – I rang admin no . This admin hardly ever contacted me; I found a temporary job in October. I sent a copy of the email from my old job daycares centre to this ‘admin’...no response for 2 days!! . So I messaged again saying “I have the reference, did you receive my other reference? When can I start?” Admin did not answer my question; instead she said I need to contact ‘ND’. I messaged back and said “Your telling me contact ND- and then ND is telling me to contact you. No response to that....A few days later.....
    I get the job withdrawl message. No real reason has still been given as to why htey messed me around like this. I know part of it is my fault- I admit. I should of just left the school reference and gave a different one. The company daycare centre reference was sorted-done. But reason why i wanted the school reference was because O had an amazing time there. The teachers...I got on so well with , got on with support staff etc. That school meant a lot to me, I volunteered there during my course. I NEEDED ths reference in particular, but should of just left it. So because of this 2 reference, they withdrew a job? What about giving everything else eon time? Going in to volunteer-which turned out to be ‘work day’, with no pay lol!!??
    I have asked around, my friend who worked in a school for a while told me to report them. As I have a verbal contract. My mother lol is aying to keep trying, erm not now. Not after repeated requests for information and many emails and messages asking for a meeting with these so called manage and admin. I wanted to see a head teacher; I also asked to speak to the governor. Lol before anyone thinks thats too far reason I asked is because this school is very small. Mainly run on donations. There website last I checked in October still has me listed as their teaching assistant! But no head teacher is listed! After admin sent me the message about me having to contact ND, I asked for a meeting. A that point it was beyond ridiculous. Then I just kept emailing and messaging for a meeting because they were not responding.
    So after all this explanation does anybody think I should go to Offsted OR a work tribunal? I don’t think the children are in danger. Just that the manager is somewhat careless and the admin is incompetent. But this admin is extremely incompetent dealing with personnel files and children! The manager is just as incompetent. When she finally spoke to me in the beginning of October on the phone (shock!) She said her admin was saying I was the **one delaying the process.** I denied it as its false explained her admin has not been responding to me and I DO HAVE A reference to give why was this not given to ND. She didn’t know..! I was disgusted. I kept it professional, but when i sai my aunt is in legal...not that’s she’s a barrister. My point was I was saying I can know about legal stff if need be. She replied with “I don’t like where this conversation is going” I apologised. I thought the conversation went well after that. I asked for a meeting she said she will need to clarify with he r’admin’ with what I said. .....no response from ND. until yesterday, when she mailed and said she can’t have a meeting ”She is busy as are the governors”. Then I asked please redirect me to someone who can help....She said she “is the manager and she is the senior member of staf” lol...Their website does not have a head teacher listed, a school can’t be that small that there’s no head teacher! There is up to year 5 I’m sure. She is merely manager of early years! I have not responded to her email from yesterday as she’s just said now “We are going around in circles, please...EMAIL school admin”. This is so pathetic now, and that’s why its embarrassing. I still do not believe that the reference was the problem. She didn’t get a 2nd reference ok; why not answer me when I said I could get a DIFFERENT one?!
    Do I have a legal case or this a matter for Offsted? I iwll ask her, or migh t just have to go to my aunt. Which i don’t really want to do simply ebacus thi matter is so disheartening. What do I do?

    Thanks for any help.:)
  2. sa242004

    sa242004 New commenter

    A side note- my post DID have paragraphs for an easier read lol...now its all just jumbled and seems even longer...woops sorry.:)
  3. cheesypop

    cheesypop Senior commenter

    Ok so, to be clear...

    You were offered a job.

    To start in September?

    You went in voluntarily in August, it was voluntary as in you didn’t get paid, but it was treated as a work day.

    There were children there?

    You raised some concerns regarding safety and condition of bathrooms etc?

    Admin said there was a problem with your references and DBS.

    You’ve not been in since and no one has responded to you properly?

    They have never paid you.

    They now say you no longer have a job offer there.

    You have been working elsewhere in the meantime.

    Is that right?
    saluki, sa242004 and george1963 like this.
  4. cheesypop

    cheesypop Senior commenter

    If that’s right, here’s what I think (although I am not legally trained and don’t know why you wouldn’t ask a legally trained family member rather then strangers on a forum...)

    Leave it. The job offer will have on the condition of satisfactory references, which they say they didn’t get. You can’t prove you lost out from not working there as you got another job in the meantime.

    If it’s as disorganised as you say you have had a lucky escape.

    Move on.
  5. george1963

    george1963 Occasional commenter

    Thank you :)
  6. GLsghost

    GLsghost Star commenter

    You did better than me. I CBA to read it all! o_O
  7. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    @sa242004 this is very hard to follow, it's not just the lack of paragraphing it's too long and rambling. It's hard to work out what the central issues are. It seems to me @cheesypop has summarised the key points well and I agree particularly that this school seems so disorganised you have probably had a lucky escape. I assume it's a private school of some sort, but I'm not even sure about that as you say it's mainly run on donations. It might even have gone bust and not been able to pay you anyway!

    As to whether you have a legal claim at an Employment Tribunal I'm reluctant even to guess because it's so confused but I think they are saying you never started as an employee of the school because the job offer was conditional on satisfactory references and they were not received. In which case you probably don't have a claim. Are you in a union who you could consult?

    Anyone can complain to Ofsted if they believe there is a safeguarding concern. Whether there is in this case I don't know - you do say yourself "I don’t think the children are in danger. Just that the manager is somewhat careless and the admin is incompetent." Ofsted might respond if it's a safeguarding concern but will have no interest at all in the long saga of your employment contract. Ofsted will not get involved in individual employment disputes.
    Pomz and cheesypop like this.
  8. sa242004

    sa242004 New commenter

    Yes thats right.Thank you lol.
    Its long because I needed to actually get some advice here because your all teachers or in education field thats why. My aunt does immigration law...so anyways.
    I get 1 posters- who is saying-leave it. But its really not that simple. They will just do it again to another person, Are these two ladies really fit to be running a school is this normal practice?
    Who do I ocntact offfsted or make a claim agauinst them for breach of contract-i found this amazing website which has 100% made me not want to drop this now.....please let me know if anyone thinks whats theyve done is right...or if thyeve had any similar experiences to mine. Also lol today is my last day at work- it was menat to last 2 months but hant gone past 2 weeks (working days)....
  9. sa242004

    sa242004 New commenter

    This is the website, https://www.hrzone.com/engage/employees/whats-the-answer-withdrawing-a-verbal-offer-of-employment from what Ive read a verbal contract is just as binding. I could actually claim money..legally its right, morally I dont think oits right. The children will suffer in this school, not the actual 2 adults who made this mess. Yes, i admit I also made mistakes of course. Mistake was entrusting my persoannel details to an admin who clearly isnt competent enough to do her job. So I dont think I iwll be claiming money unless I know its from these two ladies, I would not want anything extragvegent even if no money IS offered- I wnat an apology atleast! lol...seriously just so ridiculous!
  10. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Star commenter

  11. CWadd

    CWadd Star commenter

    Its not a matter for Ofsted. Only if its an actual safeguarding issue...and you'd need to prove it.

    Do you really want to spend time/money pursuing this?

    If you've got another post, I would focus my energy for that.
    sa242004 likes this.
  12. cheesypop

    cheesypop Senior commenter

    From what I gather, the OP doesn’t have another post in education, it is a call centre post which is possibly temporary.

    I think that the ‘school’ could say that they employed you with the best of intentions, you came in for a voluntary day, they even added you to a staff WhatsApp group and put you on the website as staff, but you failed to provide sufficient references so the job offer was revoked. You yourself say you could have supplied a different reference but were set on this specific one, which for some reason they found unacceptable.

    I think your main claim, if you were to make one to someone, would be loss of earnings, but as you got another job that won’t work. Also, as you got another job they could say that you couldn’t have taken up the job offer anyway.

    I wouldn’t get ofsted involved just because admin are disorganised. I also agree, for what it’s worth, with ‘ND the Manager’ that WhatsApp was not an appropriate forum to discuss your employment issues.

    As already said - I’d move on.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
    pepper5 and sa242004 like this.
  13. lottee1000

    lottee1000 Occasional commenter

  14. Billie73

    Billie73 Occasional commenter

    Let it go.
    Laphroig, grumpydogwoman and pepper5 like this.
  15. Happy-Hogan

    Happy-Hogan New commenter

    No chance. You have no legal rights for 2 years until employment.

    PS - learn to be concise.

    pepper5 likes this.
  16. delmamerchant

    delmamerchant Established commenter

    I second the above.
    Laphroig and pepper5 like this.
  17. Lalad

    Lalad Star commenter

    I don't think I could cope with another post!
  18. sa242004

    sa242004 New commenter

    Thanks to the posters who are helping in not trying to be rude but the people who are being sarcastic- it's really not needed. Yeh my post was long-so why are you also then posting back....
    Anyways. Ok I understand maybe offsted isn't the best place but at the end of the day it's school....for children. Shouldn't something be done here? Majority of people are saying let it go yet 2, people in my life- tell me otherwise But the one who told me to report it offered no longer works in a school just a tuition center now....THat person when I first told her straight away told me report them to offsted. Which I won't won't due to lack of evidence.
    I won't be Pershing it in court I guess because of what some are saying about my "new" job but it was a temporary contract and I actually only had under 15 shifts..so it wasn't really something that they can use as Nd was taking so long to let me work there.
    Also-------≥ I asked if another refrence was needed and actually sent a couple of emails asking for a reference to old employers...I never heard back but some people are missing the main point....this should of been done in july to august...not september to October.... The admin really messed me over I tried making a complaint or have a meeting then didn't allow me.... Also..no one has answered about the school not having a headteacher looks that normal? Because I genuinely dont know:)
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  19. saluki

    saluki Lead commenter

    Spag isn't very good either.
    Laphroig and FarSideofParadise like this.
  20. FarSideofParadise

    FarSideofParadise Occasional commenter

    It was stressful, my eye twitch hasn't stopped yet.
    knitone, IanG and Pomz like this.

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