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Switzerland Joins EU!

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Vladimir, Mar 3, 2016.

  1. Vladimir

    Vladimir Senior commenter

  2. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Also shows very clearly how democracy is not and will not be respected in the EU. Their people voted democratically to impose restrictions on immigration but their government is told - told - they cannot do this by people unelected by the Swiss. They are also threatened and bullied to accept the rulings of the EU if they want to continue trading.

    I have said this many times I know but how the EU thinks this will do anything but give more votes to far right parties (as we continue to see) and, as we now also see, the Swiss saying 'don't even think about asking us to join your club' is beyond me.
     
  3. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Both Norway & Sweden want access to the EU's market - as would we should we foolishly vote to leave. We'll only get that if we agree to pay for the privilege, allow freedom of movement and accept the same rules & regulations as EU members.

    So the Brexit vote is actually a choice between the status quo, or something that includes the same costs, rules and amount of regulation, but with no input into making those rules.
     
  4. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    So we should capitulate in the face of such blackmail?
     
  5. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Both the countries you name (you mean the Swiss, though) have tiny populations and do not have the clout the world's 5th largest economy has. It is also their decision to accept this blackmail.

    We have a trade deficit with the EU and it is quite massive. If anyone will be debating from a point of force, it will be the UK.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35530340

    From the article:

    The UK also suffered a record traded goods deficit of £23.2bn with the rest of the European Union in the fourth quarter of 2015, as exports to other EU countries fell 0.5% and imports from the EU rose 2.7%
     
    Sebastianandfriends likes this.
  6. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter


    Yes, Switzerland.

    • Norway is rich due to their natural resources (oil/gas); Switzerland due to its financial services wealth. Both 'punch above their weight' economically. Yet both are forced to accept pretty humiliating terms to do business with the EU - it would be the same for the UK.
     
    JL48 likes this.
  7. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    Both Norway & Sweden want access to the EU's market - as would we should we foolishly vote to leave. We'll only get that if we agree to pay for the privilege, allow freedom of movement and accept the same rules & regulations as EU members.
    You might find that Norway in particular is more wanted because it has sustainable reserves of oil and gas.and fisheries policy which means the EU cant raid it like it does of UK Fish.We have to allow them to fish our waters.
     
    Vladimir likes this.
  8. Vladimir

    Vladimir Senior commenter

    I disagree. The EU is relying on our financial contribution. We are, in fact, supporting this farce! If we leave and then refuse to accept the EU's demands, the EU will very soon collapse, and it will be a level playing field again. The EU is in self-destruct mode as it is, so let it blow!

    In fact, I would have thought the UK could start making its own demands from a strong point of having cash, and I'm not talking about those silly, little trips to Brussels with nothing to show for them that Dave is now so famous for. We aren't desperate, but they will be!
     
    wanet and Sebastianandfriends like this.
  9. Sebastianandfriends

    Sebastianandfriends Occasional commenter

    Switzerland has just sent a very supportive message for Brexit.

    “This is a clear and historical message from the Swiss parliament to British voters. We wish you the best of luck for Brexit. These days, Switzerland is called Britzerland because Swiss people support the Brexit.

    A big advantage of leaving the EU is free trade worldwide, not only between the member states, making it easier and cheaper for British companies to export their goods to the rest of the world. The boost to income outweighs the billions of pounds in membership fees that Britain would save if it left the EU.

    Brexit will make this traditional friendship better and more successful than ever. British and Swiss people are clever: They know why Europe is the most fascinating continent because of diversity, human rights, competition between the states and freedom.

    I wish you a courageous and visionary referendum!”


    Wonderful message !
     
  10. Crowbob

    Crowbob Lead commenter

    That is not so much a message from Switzerland as a message from a particular party known to be eurosceptic...

    Dumpty: how is it blackmail for one party to assert the rules of an agreement with the well-known international law consequences if the other party doesn't comply? It isn't blackmail for my gym to state that they will consider revoking my membership if I don't abide by the rules.
     
  11. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    A party that is nowhere near forming a government. But the message is not even that, most of the message is from an internet randomer.
    The Swiss never even applied to join the EU, it was so long ago that they applied to join the EEC. The 'application' has been void for 25 years. The EU has not even considered the Swiss to be a candidate state since 1992.
    Unless the UK can eliminate most of its poverty, reduce its imports drastically and turn out 35% of its exports in high value watches and gold bullion, its fantasy to compare the Swiss economy to that of the UK.
     
  12. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    As I was the one to introduce the word blackmail perhaps you will allow me to show why I used it?
    Frank said this
    I said this
    If any trade agreement comes only with such built in clauses then it is a form of blackmail. You can call it coercion if you like.
    I don't want to be bullied into accepting such terms simply to trade with the EU. We'd be better paying duty for each transaction and making them pay to trade with us.
    Yes that will hurt our economy but (to a lesser degree) it will hurt theirs as well.
    They need our trade nearly as much as we need theirs so we don't have to beg, don't have to be bullied and we sure as hell won't be blackmailed


    Sensible heads will win out in the long run
     
  13. aspensquiver_2

    aspensquiver_2 Senior commenter

    [This comment/section has been removed for breaching our Community Guidelines/Terms and conditions]

    .
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2016
  14. Crowbob

    Crowbob Lead commenter

    Again, why is it blackmail? Why should one party be able to renege on rules agreed by 28? Particularly when that one has little input into the rules. Nobody is being bullied, they are just being held to the agreement that they consented to. If they no longer like the agreement then they can breach or end the agreement or attempt negotiation. To suggest it is blackmail adds unnecessary and unfair emotion into the question.
     
  15. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Crowbob,

    My point was the EU elite are again totally ignoring the democratic will of a member state and simply saying 'tough, we ain't even gonna talk to you about restrictions on immigrants to your country and if you even think about leaving we will cut off trade with you'.

    That is bullying, threatening (the words I used) and stunningly arrogant behaviour.

    They have to compromise - surely? Otherwise things could get messy with the Swiss.

    Actually, you make a good point about membership states and the now 28 member countries. As Peter Hitchens was saying, it is wrong we keep talking about a trade union when the whole idea of the EU and the result of a 'Yes' will be more political union. The trade deals are set up and have been for ages.

    The thing moving forwards and always without the consent of the people is political union. With that each member state becomes a minority and less and less of an influence and, as you rightly point out, have any say on a majority decision against them.

    The Swiss are trying the take this on and just meeting a brick wall.
     
  16. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    That was the position being discussed at the time
     
  17. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Not really... there are rules for being in a club... if a country doesn't want to follow those rules then fine, it can then leave that club. It doesn't mean the club has to continue giving the benefits of membership to that country after it's left.

    The EU would just prioritise the needs of its remaining 27 members. After all, the 'Out' campaign is just wanting to do the same thing for the UK [prioritise what they perceive as our needs]

    It's like when BMW sent out the letter to their employees. People said it was bullying. Just read to me like a European employer laying out its position for its workers. Seemed quite a decent thing to do really. I saw a video recently of a US company [in massive profit] informing life-long workers that they were moving production to Mexico. BMW did a better job than them in comparison.
     
  18. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    "Paying for the privilege of free access" is a contradictory statement.:)
    The EU is a complete contradiction, Union should be replaced by dictatorship. IMO.
     
    lanokia likes this.
  19. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Is it a bit yeah! :D
     
  20. Burndenpark

    Burndenpark Star commenter

    Are you suggesting that we should bully the world's 4th, 6th & 8th largest economies into giving us better terms than they give everyone else?

    (BTW Switzerland is the 20th so not exactly a minnow)
    Out of interest how high do we rank in the scale of our net contributions over all and per capita?

    As you think the rest of the EU is reliant on what we pay I assume that you have the numbers to hand.

    Yet you post on TES who blackmail/ coerce you into certain choices in what you post?
    It's a club- if you want to be in it there are rules that you have to obey- so far as I can see that is no more blackmail/ coercion than having NI taken out of your wages.


    Take the knife out of your hand, cutting your nose off would be messy and your face wouldn't feel any benefit.
     
    JL48 and aspensquiver_2 like this.

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