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Summer Holiday Pay from 2 Schools

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by c1lake, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. c1lake

    c1lake New commenter

    Does anyone know the answer to this question?

    If I work in a school in England and I work to the end of the academic year and finish on 31st August but my new job in Scotland starts on the 19th August, can I still get paid from my previous school and my new school at the same time?

    Or would my current work have to stop paying my summer holiday pay on the 18th August and my new employer starts paying me on the 19th August?

    I would have assumed that a cross-over could take place as I would have worked my full academic year at my current school.

    Any thoughts?
  2. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Get advice from your union. This has come up before and a number of posters reported that you cannot be paid by 2 schools in the way you describe.

    Apparently the reason is to do with contract law. As you are still under contract to old school until 31st August you have a duty to them not to take other employment without their permission. I don't have any legal references for this, it's what's ben quoted here in the past as union advice. It's irrelevant that in fact they will not require you to do any work for them in that period. What's relevant legally is you owe contractual obligations until 31st August.
    JohnJCazorla and c1lake like this.
  3. border_walker

    border_walker Lead commenter

    If your old school don't know when you start the new one, you might just get away with it. But if they know, i doubt it.
    strawbs likes this.
  4. frustum

    frustum Star commenter

    Burgundy book paragraph 2.1:
    All teachers resigning their appointments will be paid salary;
    - at the end of the summer term to August 31; or, in the case of a teacher resigning to take up an appointment with another employer to the day preceding the day on which the school under the new employer opens for the autumn term if this be earlier than September 1;

    That seems fairly clear, for a move to another school.

    (However I'm pretty sure people have overlapped the employments when moving out of teaching, or moving abroad. As far as I know there is no general rule against having other employment alongside teaching, provided you can meet the contractual obligations of both. Although the paragraph above says "with another employer", the following bit refers to school/term, which implies that it was written with moves to other schools in mind. I think the issue is that you can't be paid from the public purse twice over.)
    JohnJCazorla, strawbs and c1lake like this.
  5. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Good point. In Burgundy Book "another employer" means another employer who is a party to the BB - ie to another English or Welsh LA. As BB is a private agreement it couldn't bind an 'employer' who is not a signatory to it.

    The advice from unions posted previously here, as I recall it, wasn't that you cannot have two employment contracts running at the same time - many people do - but that if you have a full time teacher's contract with one school you need its permission to have a second full time contract at the same time.

    No doubt in practice if a teacher moves out of the profession altogether - or as here moves to Scotland - the school you are leaving is unlikely ever to know about it, nor do anything about it even if they did find out.
    JohnJCazorla, strawbs and c1lake like this.
  6. c1lake

    c1lake New commenter

    Thank you everyone. This is really helpful advice. Much appreciated.
  7. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    I am not at all convinced about this. Surely it would have to be in your contract for it to be the case, as it is only mentioned in the Burgundy Book in terms of a move to another school in England or Wales. If not, as long as you are available when your contract says you must be, then I can't see an issue. No one has ever mentioned it as an issue for a part time teacher to teach on other days at another school, and this is similar in that it is only when you are not contracted to work at your old school.
  8. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    I did say it is what some other posters have quoted as union advice, I don't know the specific legal citations. I can see how the common law implied duties of employees might make this advice correct though.

    Part timers working different days of the week is a wholly different matter though. If I'm contracted to work Monday and Tuesday at one school and Weds + Thursday at another the contracts don't apply at the same time, no overlap.
  9. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    But there is no overlap here, either. Once the full 195 directed days have been used up, you are not contracted to work during the summer holiday. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that they cannot stop you doing anything you like on days where you are not directed to be at school, unless your contract says so explicitly.

    I have had contracts which specify that I must get permission to do another job, but this did not apply at school.
  10. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Directed time and contractual employment aren't the same thing at all. If they were you wouldn't get paid for the summer holidays! And your contract of employment wouldn't terminate on 31st August but on the last day of term.
  11. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    I think we will have to agree to differ on this. My view is that you can work elsewhere on any day that you are not directed to work at school, whether it is during term or holiday time. Under your school contract, you are paid until 31 August and only have to work on the 195 directed days. Under the Burgundy Book, your contract finishes on 31 August, but you are not contracted to work at the school after the end of the school term. I think that on any other day, you can do what you like. As far as I know, nobody has ever complained about teachers tutoring or working in summer schools during the summer break. Or has somebody been told they are not allowed to work in the summer?
    border_walker likes this.
  12. 50sman

    50sman Lead commenter

    Hopefully the OP will return and give us the answer!
    Piranha likes this.

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