Sub-levels

Discussion in 'Primary' started by Daisy-chain, Feb 17, 2009.

1. Daisy-chain

Can anyone help, as I am getting a bit confused.
I teach in Year 3 and need to check that I am correct in how I am levelling my children. If they are supposed to make 1 1/2 sublevels each year and expect to achieve 4 in Year 6 does it follow that if they are currently:
4b-3b- they are above average
2b-3b- on track
and 2b or below- not on track
Or can anyone direct me to where this info may be?
Thank you.

2. peekay72

as far as i know it's 2/3 of a level progress each yr. at the end of ks1 the should be 2b
yr 3 national average is 2A/3C
the hope is to get the children to 3b+ by the end of year 5 so that they have the best possible chance of achieving a L4+ in the ks2 SATs.

3. T34Established commenter

The increase expected depends on the child's contextual data. Some might be expexted to make more than your figure and some less. It also depends on the subject.
Use the child's FFT points estimate for the KS2 result, subtract the KS1 points and divide by 4

4. speedwaychick

you are responsible for ensuring they make 1 and 1/2 sublevels per academic year. (although in our shool we are told 2! ha!) but as long as they make 1.5 with YOU then it doesnt matter their starting point. e.g. i have a pupil in year 5 who is predicted based on RECEPTION assessments to be a 4a by the end of year 5 - however he came to me as a p7!!!!!!!!!!!!! aslong as i can get him to a 1c/b then i will be fine with regards to performace management. (not gonna hapen tho lol) if they do not make this progress then as long as yu can priove that you intervened asap and made the provision for them to make this progress then you also should be ok. its the people who dont notice that their pupils are not moving that is the issue.
the whole levels thing is mad tho as if they left y2 at an average 2b then by end of y3 they would be 3c, end of year 4 3a end of y5 4b and end of y6 a 5c. that is imposs for most ch as they do not make the same speedy prog as they do in the infants. would end up by year 9 being a level 7 ! ch are not machines making the smae prog every year they do not work like that! (grr rant over!)

5. juliedj

Trying to move each and every child by two sub levels each year is pure mentalism!
What is expected at each sub level changes dramatically each year, and so even if a child achieved a 3c at the end of Y3 and then the same at the end of Y4 there has still had to be progress made just to achieve the same level.
This is a massively contentious issue for me as the some of the children in my class last year failed to make 2 sub level progress and as a result I was not put forward for UPS2.
The children in question had a wild variety of special needs and behavioural issues and had already failed to move the required one sub level by the end of year 3.
I feel I was stuffed all ways! Despite this, I know in my heart that those kids made progress and were more secure in lots of different areas of the curriculum - but no-one seems to really care about that!

6. lardylegsOccasional commenter

This is all such a huge crock of ****, and it is outrageous that people are now missing out on pay increases because they have a thick class one year.
This endless emphasis on 'pupil tracking' is sucking the lifeblood out of teachers, no wonder young teachers want to pack it in after their NQT year and go and work in M&S.
Horseshit, all of it.

7. Misstified

Isn't part of the problem though that lower down the sub levels especially with writing a few small steps make a bigger difference to the levels but the further up the levels much more is needed. For example theres a big difference between a child writing a simple story ( may be only a few sentences) with the beginnings of basic punctuation at 2c and the range of literacy skills a child has to demonstrate to get a 2a never mind a level 3. I teach y1/2 and find that getting them to level 2c is OK but moving a 2b to 2a or a 2a to 3c is harder ( especially for them to consistently work at that level).

8. T34Established commenter

This seems very odd.
It is quite rare for the FFT D type estimate for a pupil to require an average of more than 3 points progress per year (1.5 sub-levels).
Was ther some special reason for this massive expectation for these children?

9. pamted

Not that odd I too was refused the threshold because not all of my class had made the expected 2 sub-levels progress. I have it put into my performance management (on which my threshold application depends) that 95% of my class must make at least 2 sub-levels progress. I did have the caveat put in that the eight children who have come up from KS1 on P levels are exempted from this.

10. JoJo37New commenter

I too have it as a PM target that children make at least 2 sublevel progress. When children are not meeting targets set in Reception then I am pressured into assuring more than 2 sublevels and to explain why not if they don't.

11. T34Established commenter

Well, you must get hold of the KS2 FFT estimates for these particular children and see if what your headteacher is expecting is reasonable in the light of these estimates. I would expect it to be unreasonable.
FFT estimates are a sort of 'gold standard', based as they are on the actual results achieved in the previous year and taking into account the contextual factors for each individual child. Each LA makes the FFT estimates available to its headteachers, expecting them to form the basis of their target setting.

12. esiuol2008

Completely agree!
and also agree that L3s at different stages are not all the same. I felt the need to 'cover my back' as the year 3 teacher often fussed about the 3c children not being 3c at year 3.
When pupil targets are put on teachers there will, unfortunately, always be exaggerated results.

13. pamted

Many thanks - I will be checking on Monday.

14. nicoeste

My brother who was a 4b at the beginig of year 6, (averege) and in his practice sats he got for maths 5c, sceince 5b , writing 5c this is well above averege and he hasent finished year 6, would this be good to enter high school ? pelase ANSWER ME

15. salofi

On another thread (Level 5 in numeracy) you state that it is you who got these levels... what exactly are you trying to find out and why can't you ask your own teacher?

16. nicoeste

I am just exploring people's reactcions, yes is true that i got those scores, my brother Sebastian got a level 5 inmaths as well as he was a 4b, now he got the same score as me, the difrence was i was a level 4a while he was a 4b at the end he got the same as me, oh yes why dont you *** off?