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Students - independent learners?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by monicabilongame, Dec 16, 2015.

  1. shafattack

    shafattack New commenter

    Sorry but governments should not have that much power over schools. A qualified expert in one field dies nit has a right to change the way another works in theirs. Would they tell their dentist how to fill a cavity? No. Would they tell a chef how to make a beef wellington? No. Would they instruct a psychologist to unravel the complexities of a bipolar person? No. That's because they respect the qualification and experience 9f that professional to do their job. Being an MP apparently automatically gives the ability to know how to teach.
    It doesn't.
    Plus the obvious terrible link between government and teaching should be severed.
    Teachers are battered by individual points of view by those that do not know anything about it.
    Teachers. Say no. Say NO!
    A surgeon being told how to operate by an unqualified individual would say NO. Why? Because live's would be at risk. So why not teachers saying no? Is our charge any LESS risky?
    Just say NO.
    Sounds perfect to me.
    phlogiston likes this.
  2. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    I thought this independent learning fad had died a death anyway - it was around a few years ago and then sort of faded away.

    My current school contains so few independent learners they wouldn't even know what the concept means.
  3. Compassman

    Compassman Star commenter

    Maybe there are so few independent learners because teachers spend so much time on intervention making the kids think they can rely on the teachers all the time for everything.
    slingshotsally and phlogiston like this.
  4. emmabourke

    emmabourke New commenter

    Schools talk so much about independent learners but do we teach it? In a world where we are so focused on exam results and content we seem to forget the importance of teaching for understanding. David Perkins has some very insightful books on this.
  5. drek

    drek Star commenter

    Who are students learning to be 'independent' from? In schools only people with TLRs are allowed to pretend they are independent individuals. They are a selected minority who teach less and less. The rest are brow beaten through constant 'monitoring' and threatened with performance management to make the students as dependent on them as possible, whilst providing evidence to the contrary!
    Who is there to truly model this 'independence'.?
    perhaps the consultants that breeze through wreaking havoc in their wake?
  6. purestrats

    purestrats New commenter

    the age old problem with this job.

    You are under performing because child A isnt getting a C in your subject.

    my response:
    Ok, child A cannot read and write even close to his natural age and doesnt settle down in lessons, ive told you, my HOD, the senior learning managers, ive set the detentions, ive rang home ive reported this again and again. Has he done anything outside of lessons? No! Can he? id be inclined to say he cant even.

    Talking to all of his other teachers they say how poor this kid is . . however, on his report he got a 3(poor) from me and a 1 and 2 from everyone else. I can see why you bring this up with me, I mean, i came into your class (you are clearly a much better teacher than me) last week you were on at him the whole time i was there, he told you to f off, you gave him a 1 on his report that day. . yes hes on a behaviour AND work report, i see he got 8 detentions in one week, i got his report this week everyone saying hes doing excellent, 1-2 all week. he comes to me and we actually get on . . but his work is NEVER a 1-2, i spend my whole lesson babysitting and keeping him on task and pandering to his needs neglecting the other 26 . . i mean. Hes a 1-2 kids capable of getting a C, i dont think any pof the work is his own really, and hes really REALLY proud of that 8 word misspelled sentence he did in 40 minutes. when i told he to talk about why he did that he straight up told me he couldnt be ***** and done all his work, and we get on, he tells me how he fing hates you and he does nothing and trys to wind you up. You gave him a 1!!!!! i gave him a 3, he was mad but i explained why. Now you are pulling me up for evaluating his performance and something less than average. Can he work on his own. No. Can other students work on their own. Yes, but not as well as us 30+ year olds imagine it when we write the lesson plan and outcomes.

    So what you are saying is, i need to get him a better grade than i got in this subject when i was at school or you are going to threaten my job. I wonder if it would be quicker to do the work for the kids because in a 50 minute lesson am i supposed to address all of the other educational gaps in their learning before i get classed as a good teacher and then i thank you for letting me keep my job im clearly not able to do, or at least how you make me and the rest of the staff feel daily.

    I mean, i think ive solved the problem, doi the work for the kids give everyone a copy paste 2 on their reports. Easy life?

    ye sounds like modern day education! Can kids work independently? No, because the way we are told ofsted are judging us, can i even give out a 40 seconds instruction and say here for 35 minutes prepare me a report on what you think? YOu know, give them time to reflect, research and apply? LOL this lesson would get inadequate all day! Id sooner take the safe good judgement talking most of the lesson, absurdly breaking the pace asking questions and reviewing everything they were doing every 3 minutes. Yep. I feel like im learning!
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
    needabreak likes this.
  7. JosieWhitehead

    JosieWhitehead Star commenter

    Actually I was an 11 plus failure who always wanted to teach, from the age of five. I was told by the headmaster that I should get this idea out of my head because the 11 plus was an indication of your IQ and, although he didn't say this, he was saying that mine was low. I think this infuriated me, and with a mother who said: "You can achieve anything by hard work" I continued studying after leaving school at 15 and I've been a teacher all my working life and loved every minute. I still like to go into schools and work with children. The word "failure" sometimes gets a young person working all the harder to show the world that they're not really a failure and that "failure" is only a stumbling block word along life's way.
  8. AnnaGrr

    AnnaGrr New commenter


    Here is a a link to a fellow teacher yesterday who managed to test MP and Chair or Commons Education committee, Neil Carmichael with a year 6 SATs Q. Needless to say he couldn't answer it!

    It was on the radio at 7:30am, so scroll forward through the show untill 1 hour and 30 mins in. It's just after the Starbucks story.
  9. slingshotsally

    slingshotsally Star commenter

    I agree, but would also add that independent learning actually involves letting a child experiment, explore, make mistakes, re-do, improve and adapt.

    After an observation of a practical science lesson, it was clear to me that the school I was at didn't accept that 1 or 2 children could/should/would make mistakes during their learning.

    No teacher wants to fail observations because the observer has a particular concept of how learning should be, it's a career killer.

    Anonymity likes this.
  10. Shedman

    Shedman Star commenter

    Do students really want to understand their subjects or do they just want to learn and regurgitate the stuff they need to know for exams? I teach a bit of A-level physics and do any students read New Scientist or follow science advances online? I will often raise some new finding or research in physics to be met with blank, bemused faces. I tried to discuss the discovery of gravity waves recently only to be asked if this would be in the exam and if not why was I talking about it? I despair!!
    Anonymity likes this.
  11. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    As soon as the teachers feared for the students grades more than the students themselves the overall failure of the system began.

    I am now a fairly mature poster yet when I was at school if I failed it was implicitly my fault, whether in fact it would have been or not. Back then independent learning was a little more complicated but since the advent of electronic communication and information transfer things have changed.

    Information zooms past students at every level with increasing speed and yet only they can ultimately filter and cognitively process what they deem important and useful. They often do this ineptly since their information seeking and sorting skills are themselves often lacking.

    Learning to learn is a devalued skill now that teachers are responsible for their students failure *interesting they are rarely rewarded for their students success; therein lies a discrepancy where there are reprimands both private and public for teachers who's students appear to underachieve in terms of national standards, the only incentive is harsh... a carrot and stick approach to save your job.

    With the carrot and stick approach comes the implicit old yet rehashed believe that workers are lazy, cannot be trusted and need constant supervision and instruction. Ring any bells?

    Contrast this with the belief that workers are responsible and can enjoy achievement in the workplace and are motivated by fulfilling the needs of the job, are motivated by contributing to improved practices as much as financial reward.

    Payment is only one aspect of motivation and methinks those who impose rules on the public sector should perhaps and have a rethink about human resources and motivation theory, the traditional model upon which they base their teacher management for example is one that is now rare in industry despite the fact they believe it to be an efficient "business model".
  12. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    The problem heightens as they proceed through the education system, child A got extra "help" to achieve the A-C grades at GCSE then gets the grades to get onto a few A'levels, there they are increasingly expected to read around the subject, work independently and prep for uni life... teachers are then faced with a similar dilemma as the reality is they are likely to achieve only the lowest grades without more additional help (this is by the way the additional work that textbooks alone cannot provide). By the time they get to uni some will struggle with the first year since they have been spoon fed for the best part of their academic life.

    A successful approach to educating our young people? I think not.

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