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Students - independent learners?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by monicabilongame, Dec 16, 2015.

  1. Compassman

    Compassman Star commenter

    But the reason the teachers are out chasing them is because of targets and league tables......
     
    indusant, Anonymity and cissy3 like this.
  2. xena-warrior

    xena-warrior Star commenter

    It's my job to prepare data. Occasionally (as above) I feel I'm just propping up a rotten system and enabling the data-led, limitless-progress (don't get me started on "coasting") myth that breeds fear and threat. But most of the time I just knock the work out and deliver it with this little logo at the bottom:
    [​IMG]
    Then I think of August.
     
    Mrsmumbles, Compassman and Anonymity like this.
  3. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    If your mum nags you constantly, picks up your clothes after you and slaves away doing all your work for you what happens when you finally try and become an independent person? You fail. In fact, helicopter parenting is counter productive.
    One dose of loco parentis later we have teachers doing the same. Only, the reason they are doing this is because Gove installed Wilshaw who ramped up OfSTEd into an attack dog and Gove also made all head teachers' jobs at risk if they didn't perform Wilshaw's tricks.
    And Wilshaw's tricks? Helicopter teacher/parenting and other positivist nonsense which have no foundation in evidence.
     
  4. drek

    drek Lead commenter

    I've read one or two of Mary's articles and I am becoming a fan. I think...
    She is the first union leader whose words ring a bell. I hope she carries on writing and is not shut down or disreputed by ofsted and the dfe.
    These days teachers are often provided with the equivalent of glass hammers as 'tools' to develop and inspire them and turn our students into independent learners.
    If a carpenter is presented with a glass hammer what would they do?
    Teachers who would do the same thing get driven out!
     
    Mrsmumbles likes this.
  5. faidhul80

    faidhul80 New commenter

    Please... thinking wall ...

    o Alif : 48740 huruf,
    o Lam : 33922 huruf,
    o Mim : 28922 huruf,
    o Ha’ : 26925 huruf,
    o Ya’ : 25717 huruf,
    o Wawu : 25506 huruf,
    o Nun : 17000 huruf,
    o Lam alif : 14707 huruf,
    o Ba’ : 11420 huruf,
    o Tsa’ : 10480 huruf,
    o Fa’ : 9813 huruf,
    o ‘Ain : 9470 huruf,
    o Qaf : 8099 huruf,
    o Kaf : 8022 huruf,
    o Dal : 5998 huruf,
    o Sin : 5799 huruf,
    o Dzal : 4934 huruf,
    o Ha : 4138 huruf,
    o Jim : 3322 huruf,
    o Shad : 2780 huruf,
    o Ra’ : 2206 huruf,
    o Syin : 2115 huruf,
    o Dhadl : 1822 huruf,
    o Za' : 1680 huruf,
    o Kha’ : 1503 huruf,
    o Ta’ : 1404 huruf,
    o Ghain : 1229 huruf,
    o Tha’ : 1204 huruf dan terakhir
    o Dzal : 842 huruf.
     
    Vince_Ulam likes this.
  6. minnie me

    minnie me Star commenter

    Agree that study skills do it just ' happen '. Some great responses here. Students being stapled desks and force fed facts and knowledge which they then regurgitate in exam conditions should not be confused with intelligence or ' learning ' in its wider context. Sustained academic performance is down to a whole range of skills, attitudes and capabilities. Look at what prospective employers need and want. We need to give students opportunities to make mistakes but not feel threatened, demoralised and demotivated and crucially celebrate the fact that everyone has something to offer.Many settings say they are tackling 'independent learning' but when really quizzed about what they are doing and how this will look like fall short and it is often as a result of an Ofsted 'area for development' and therefore ' tick box.'
     
  7. Compassman

    Compassman Star commenter

    Very few schools offer true independent learning as they are too focussed on exam results.

    As a result you get teaching to the test (see other thread). The school looks good as the results look good but their actual knowledge is low. Employers then complain about the poor output of students from schools and we are back to poor press about teachers.

    We need to allow pupils to make mistakes (fail) and let them know that is part of learning.
     
    Lara mfl 05 likes this.
  8. minnie me

    minnie me Star commenter

    Sorry should have says ' just don't happen ... Yes real tension between cramming for exam results and developing work related learning skills.Easy to judge ' success ' in one of course !
     
  9. Principal-Skinner

    Principal-Skinner Occasional commenter

    Speaking as someone working outside state schools, good teachers are responsible for developing independent learners, aspiring them to do well. The results are better when they are not the focus, but a tool to be used.
    My complaint would be that teaching training (for the last 10 years or so) does not equip teachers with the necessary tools to breed success.
     
  10. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    I believe we only learn by making mistakes and 'failing' is part of that. I have seen lives devastated, when no-one, incl parents has ever said no to them and simply could not cope as an adult. One I know committed suicide when turned down for a marriage proposal, another ended up killing themselves in a motor-cyle accident because they had never faced consequences.
     
  11. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    Snap! Only just spotted this@Compassman
     
    Mrsmumbles likes this.
  12. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    I get really suspicious about what posters have in mind when they say children should be "allowed to fail". Fail at what exactly? Their school career? A subject which they were forced to take?

    Usually it is the system that is a failure. Compulsory subjects. Too many of them. Using "failures" to make the rest of the cohort "winners".....
     
    MamaPyjama likes this.
  13. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    That's because you don't work in a school driven by league tables, Eury. Allowed to fail simply means that a pupil who fails an assessment will have to do some work and make an effort to pass a resit. This is opposed to some schools where pupils who fail get their work rewritten by a teacher or a test "gone over" at the same time as they are sitting it or similar methods.
     
    Mrsmumbles and Compassman like this.
  14. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    Hmmmmm
     
  15. sirspamalotless

    sirspamalotless Occasional commenter

    Try teaching CIDA ICT to sixth form pupils. I have to dictate every piece of 'evidence' to them so they can pass, and have had to do this for years. No one has ever failed because it is all coursework, despite many of them struggling to put their mobile phone away, always saying, 'don't know' to any question, never doing homework and not being able to clearly articulate in even simple sentences. How can this be? There is no incentive for them to learn or improve because they know I will / have to do it for them.
     
    TEA2111 likes this.
  16. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    It starts at primary school with no competitive sports or activities because nobody must be allowed to lose.
     
    indusant, TEA2111 and Lara mfl 05 like this.
  17. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    School is an awful lot about winning and losing. That's what compulsory exams are for. That's what the middle class and the politicians want.

    But there is also a lot of squeamishness about admitting it. This seems to placate the "left" and annoy the "right".
     
  18. minnie me

    minnie me Star commenter

    Yes - success in education a bit like a race where some / many students are never going to be in a position to win.
     
  19. indusant

    indusant Senior commenter

    I agree but the idea seems to be entirely at odds with a society that encourages narcissistic qualities in young people. There are many factors at play here. Parenting has changed (Mr. Media gives a good example) and kids now have a lot more power in the household. Parents no longer keep kids' egos in check and over indulge them instead. Self promotion and admiration is the norm (many use Facebook etc to show off). People are encouraged to only promote their good qualities and ignore the bad. Then we have all the reality TV in which people with no discernible talent get famous. It all broadcasts the message that even if you put minimum effort in, you can still become successful, rich and famous in today's society. It's something which adults can see through, but it can all be a powerful influence on young minds.

    Schools encourage this as well. League tables and the like have already been mentioned. Teachers are held responsible if Little Johnny gets a bad test score. Not Little Johnny himself, he can do no wrong. Many kids have been raised as a Prince/Princess, it won't change when they get a bad test score. It all adds up to a rather unfortunate situation where many kids are unable to accept criticism but also see little consequence for failing.

    Trust also has to be a big element for Independent learning. Children need to trust their teachers that they are going in the right direction, even though they may keep making mistakes in the short term. As we know, there is a distinct lack of trust in today's schools. Parents need constant reassurance that Little Johnny is doing well. Little Johnny himself needs that reassurance, as he's been brought up expecting it. Similarly, Management need reassurance that teachers are towing the line. Teachers are scrutinised regularly and therefore need to provide evidence of what they are doing at every turn. It all adds to the lack of trust in teachers and the need to 'hand-hold' students through every step.

    Trust is crucial. To truly encourage Independent Learning, Managers, Ofsted and the like need to back off and let teachers teach. Students also need to take more responsibility for their own learning. Unfortunately, it all seems quite contrary in a culture that encourages and promotes narcissistic qualities. A sea-change needs to occur.
     
    Compassman likes this.
  20. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    Quite so:

    Shortly we will be doing Saturday catchup coursework sessions for students who didn't get/were too lazy/couldn't be bothered to do it the first time.

    Do most of them want to be there.....no

    Will they all show up..........no

    I'm so glad CW is coming to an end, I've got really fed up with all the additional hours we need to give up to do it for them.
     

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